Author Topic: ki84 speed????  (Read 16017 times)

Offline busa

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2004, 03:03:00 AM »
Thank you, F4UDOA.

And I have some questions.

Are (Ki84 pilot handbook)the things written before the report which you presented?

Do you have the comparison report of A6M5 and Seafire?
Is this report included in the report which compared A6M5 with FM2 and F6F and F4U?

Roll rate of A6M5 At the speed of 180 or less MPHs, I know that it was reported that it was the same as Seafire.
But it does not know whether it is written in more detail about roll rate by this report.
Is this report detail about the same as the report which compared A6M5 and  US planes?

Supposing you have the information about these, please let me know.

Thank you.

Offline Widewing

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #166 on: November 06, 2004, 12:02:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
According to this the P-47N/P-51H just marginally faster????


Yeah, that is certainly strange. Especially when these fighters were 80 and 100 mph faster respectively than the standard in-service Ki-84.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Mitsu

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #167 on: November 06, 2004, 01:55:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
What do you guys think?


Add "Perfect" Ki-84-I-Otsu 1945 model with 4 20mm cannons/HA-45-21. :D

Offline F4UDOA

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #168 on: November 06, 2004, 02:38:23 PM »
Busa,

Yes that is the report. I have both the A6M2 and A6M5 reports including the one done by the AAF with a P-38J, P-47D and P-51D.
The A6M5 used by the Navy was in better condition and was about 10 to 15MPH faster in the test.

Here is the first A6M2 test.

A6M2

Here is the AAF and Navy A6M5 test. They are in one PDF. It is from the TAIC.

A6M5  

Also here is a Gif file that is supposed to be from Wright field for the KI-84, I do not know it's origin or authenticity.



Do you have any reports on other Japanese comparisons with American Navy A/C? Corsair or Hellcat?

Offline Mitsu

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #169 on: November 06, 2004, 04:14:50 PM »
Nice info F4UDOA...325mph to AH2 HAYATE!...1mph faster. :D

Offline Karnak

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #170 on: November 06, 2004, 05:16:59 PM »
Widewing,

I am actually kind of begining to suspect that the numbers we have for things t\like the P-51D (437mph), Spitfire Mk XIV (448mph) and Bf109K-4 (452mph) are idealized numbers that were not what the aircraft in service actually did.

F4UDOA,

I think that is just hodgepodge data.  The engine RPMs and HP don't match the speeds.

Mitsu,

AH's Ki-84 does 323mph at sea level and 384mph at 21,325ft.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2004, 05:52:07 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Flyboy

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #171 on: November 07, 2004, 09:00:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I didn't think the +16 Boost Spit V was a good idea when it was first done.  I didn't know about the Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-2 until I read Wotan's post about it.
 


karnak can you post a link for the post?

Offline Kweassa

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #172 on: November 07, 2004, 12:55:22 PM »
Quote
I am actually kind of begining to suspect that the numbers we have for things t\like the P-51D (437mph), Spitfire Mk XIV (448mph) and Bf109K-4 (452mph) are idealized numbers that were not what the aircraft in service actually did.


 It does bring out an interesting question, or rather, opens up a big can of worms :) Obviously all mechanic creations always has a certain margin of difference between ideal performance stats and actual performance stats.

 It would seem such thorough investigation(?) on how 'crappy' Japanese and Soviet planes actually were, has given us much insight on "reality" of those planes in actual service, whereas one rarely thinks in that sense when mentioning US planes.

 No, its not a conspiracy theory, just merely a tendency(and a natural one, too) which has settled upon the situation. (I wouldn't bother searching for the 'truth' if I was the winner)

 It'd be interesting to see if there are any such thorough investigations on how big the "margin" would be for typical US planes, if such an investigation ever took place :)


 Again, I do not consider it a conspiracy theory. If I were in HTC's shoes, with this set of data, I'd model planes this way, too. However, come to think of it I've always encountered arguments on 'actual performance' as opposed to 'ideal performance'.

 Typically the Soviet planes most frequently meet these arguments, then the German and Japanese, and then the British. And yet, not one single argument have I seen that mentions how P-51 Merlin engines might not have used X amount of boost, or how P-47 speed may not have been Y amount of mph at Z alt... and etc etc. Did the US engines always use same amount of boost, no deration, no limitations, and always spot-on-the-manual-numbers?

 Just interesting stuff to think about :D (or hold a grudge against :D :D :D )
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 01:00:39 PM by Kweassa »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #173 on: November 07, 2004, 01:20:59 PM »
I've heard accounts from US WW2 pilots that their planes were slower than published specs.

Offline Mitsu

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #174 on: November 07, 2004, 02:37:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Mitsu,

AH's Ki-84 does 323mph at sea level and 384mph at 21,325ft.


It's not still fixed?

Offline Karnak

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #175 on: November 07, 2004, 05:27:41 PM »
Flyboy,

I don't remember which post it was in.  If I recall correctly it was in the CT forum and was spawned by Axis players complaining about the "overmodeled" Spitfire Mk V.

Mitsu,

No, it is fixed.  Very few aircraft in AH actually hit the number Pyro was aimimg for exactly.  the Ki-84 is less than one third of a percent off it's intended speed at sea level.  That is a tiny franction for a simulation.  It is off by a bit more than one percent at higher altitude.


If you test other aircraft you'll find the same kinds of things.  The Spitfire Mk XIV for example only hits 446mph, not 448mph.
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Offline mauser

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #176 on: November 08, 2004, 01:41:52 AM »
So if not the Frank or the George, what was the fastest single-engine, prop fighter for the IJ during the war?  

mauser

Offline oboe

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #177 on: November 08, 2004, 06:09:58 AM »
I believe it was the Frank.   Whether or not it exceeded 400 mph, I don't think the Japanese produced a faster single engine aircraft that saw combat.

Offline Kweassa

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #178 on: November 08, 2004, 08:13:13 AM »
While produced in small numbers, I think the J2M5 Raiden would be what comes next in the speed category...





* Mitsubishi MK4U-4 Kasei 26a 14-cylinder radial air-cooled engine rated at 1820 hp for takeoff

*Maximum speed 382 mph at 22,310 feet

* Normal cruising speed 230 mph

*Altitude of 19,685 feet could be reached in 6 minutes 20 seconds

*Two 20-mm Type 99 Model 1 cannon and two 20-mm Type 99 Model 2 cannon with 200 rpg

Offline Flyboy

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ki84 speed????
« Reply #179 on: November 08, 2004, 09:19:59 AM »
how many j2m5s where made?