Author Topic: Gunsight convergence has been changed so that your bullets will strike high when the (Read 1121 times)

Mugzeee · « **on:** November 01, 2004, 12:02:31 PM »

Gunsight convergence has been changed so that your bullets will strike high when the range is less than the convergence setting.

!@@#$^$%%^*&^^ Son of a rickarackafee.
Just when i was finally hitting something in ah2. If your goal is to keep me steamed? Your doing a great job.

Wurger · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:04:29 PM »

That was probably just someone else right by you that was firing and hitting and you just thought it was you ;-)

Bazi

Mugzeee · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:06:24 PM »

heheh your probably right!

"Improved the vehicle control system so they do a better job of holding speed and course without stick input"
This is a welcome change. Although i havent tried it as of yet. I will try it a give my Approval or disapproval tonight.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2004, 12:11:04 PM »

Seriously though. The AH2 gunnery was giving me nightmares untill about 2 weeks ago. I have got me convergences adjusted so i can hit with reagularity now. Im not looking forward to being challenged so soon again.

Kaitsu · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2004, 01:31:29 PM »

How was it before? Bullets didn't strike high near you but went under target at convergence distance? Or did bullets go straight all the way to the target?

JB73 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2004, 01:33:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kaitsu
How was it before? Bullets didn't strike high near you but went under target at convergence distance? Or did bullets go straight all the way to the target?

they rose so they reached the middle of the recticle at your conv setting then dropped off after that.

now the "lob" like they really should hitting the center of your recticle at the desired convergence.

stantond · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:02:45 PM »

What would be cool (but I'm not going to hold my breath)...

would be seeing the plane speed drop as you fire your guns.

For example, the Browning Machine Gun rounds weight .1 lb and have a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft/sec giving 406000 ft-lb of energy per round. This high energy also gives a flat trajectory, BTW.

Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!

Regards,

Malta

JB82 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:09:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
What would be cool (but I'm not going to hold my breath)...

would be seeing the plane speed drop as you fire your guns.

For example, the Browning Machine Gun rounds weight .1 lb and have a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft/sec giving 406000 ft-lb of energy per round. This high energy also gives a flat trajectory, BTW.

Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!

Regards,

Malta

Oh God, my math teacher is haunting me again!

icemaw · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:15:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
What would be cool (but I'm not going to hold my breath)...

would be seeing the plane speed drop as you fire your guns.

For example, the Browning Machine Gun rounds weight .1 lb and have a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft/sec giving 406000 ft-lb of energy per round. This high energy also gives a flat trajectory, BTW.

Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!

Regards,

Malta

Firing guns do effect the speed of a plane. Has for as long as I can remember

Elfie · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2004, 03:34:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
What would be cool (but I'm not going to hold my breath)...

would be seeing the plane speed drop as you fire your guns.

For example, the Browning Machine Gun rounds weight .1 lb and have a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft/sec giving 406000 ft-lb of energy per round. This high energy also gives a flat trajectory, BTW.

Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!

Regards,

Malta

That energy isnt expended all at once.

I talked to an F-4E pilot one time about this subject. When asked if the F-4E would slow down at all with its nose gun and 5 gun pods all firing at once his initial response was to laugh. He went on to state how and why that was a myth. I forget what he said exactly. (That conversation happened in '82).

Granted the F-4E is alot heavier than the planes we play with. Otoh those 20mm gatling guns have alot more recoil than the guns we get to simulate using also. They also have a much higher rate of fire, as high as 100 rounds per second.

stantond · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2004, 05:44:05 PM »

The reason I brough this up is from a recollection that the A10's guns can stop the plane in mid air if fired in a long enough burst. That caught my attention.

The F4-E's that I have seen are about 50' long and have a wing span about the same, so I expect the mass is different. A jet engine probably affects the overall thrust to compenstate for recoil as well. I am sure the pilot's perspective is accurate. I can't recall if the F4-E had enough thrust to go vertical or not.

Granted, it takes a couple or three minutes to empty out 2400 rounds in AH. I have never noticed the speed diminished in AH due to guns firing. I will have to go offline with my stopwatch to check that out.

Regards,

Malta

p.s. they have an F4-E phantom in the Air and Space museum here in Hampton (along with an F4U-1D). The first time I was by the F4-E it was hanging from the ceiling and I was on the second floor. I could not figure out what the plane was... it was so big! I had to go across the building to look and then figure out it was an F4-E. Big plane. F15's are about the same size. Like WW2 birds, the engine decides the rest of the plane dimensions. The A10 is about 4 times the size of a cessna 172 (I drive by one parked beside cessna 172's every day).

MOSQ · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:30:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
What would be cool (but I'm not going to hold my breath)...

would be seeing the plane speed drop as you fire your guns.

For example, the Browning Machine Gun rounds weight .1 lb and have a muzzle velocity of 2850 ft/sec giving 406000 ft-lb of energy per round. This high energy also gives a flat trajectory, BTW.

Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!

Regards,

Malta

Malta,

Intuitively I knew your calculation could not possibly be correct, so I double checked.

You're off by a factor of 33!!

Better look up how to calculate ME again, you're missing something. Try .http://www.cruffler.com/BallisticCalculators/BallisticCalculator.shtml The calculator here calculates the same as the below.

From two sources:

#1)

50 BMG Specifications

Cartridge metric designation 12.7 x 99
Initial date of development 1918
Nominal projectile diameter .510 inch
Listed Max Effective Range 2000 yards
Muzzle energy * 12,000+ ft-lbs
Projectile weight * 665 grains
Cartridge total weight * 1760 grains
Muzzle velocity * 2900 fps
Max chamber pressure 55,000 psi
Ballistic Coefficient * ~.65
Case nominal OAL 3.910 inch
Cartridge nominal OAL 5.450 inch

* Numbers cited are typical, current, US
military issue Ball. Figures vary widely
depending on the particular load.

#2)

The U.S. M33 .50 BMG military load uses a 668 grain FMJ-BT bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2910 fps with muzzle energy (ME) of 12,550 ft. lbs. The U.S. M2 military load uses a 720 grain FMJ-BT bullet at a MV of 2810 fps and ME of 12,600 ft. lbs

hitech · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:37:08 PM »

Did he forget to convert to slugs?

HiTech

Mugzeee · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2004, 06:40:15 PM »

OK the verdict is in.......It hasnt seemed to effect my gunnery what ever!

MOSQ · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2004, 09:54:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by stantond
Firing 2400 50 cals would expend 975 million ft-lb of energy with a 12000 lb plane at 300 tas having 1162 million ft-lb of energy. The plane speed would drop to 176 tas after firing all the ammo. Talk about affecting gunnery!
Regards,

Malta

Let's also check the slow down in speed.

Malta please use this example and apply your speed reduction formula:

A 200lb man is running 10 mph at a target firing a .45acp pistol which has a ME of 410 ft-lbs of energy. He fires 10 rounds in under 3 seconds.

How much should the man slow down?