Author Topic: The thing of it is with the Ki84... (Read 569 times)

streetstang · « **on:** November 02, 2004, 04:29:32 PM »

...everyone was hoping they would get a plane that could run down Runstangs and La7s with no trouble at all... And out turn Zeeks and SpitV's with little effort.

Sorry.

Allied Iron will continue to rule the skies.

Have a nice day.

Charon · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2004, 04:41:03 PM »

I don't think anybody was expecting that, not have I seen any references along those lines. If you've actually read any of the posts, you would see some confusion/uncertainity on the speed aspect even at HTC. This is something that has been discussed and debated long before the Ki came to AH, in forums not related to this game or online games in general.

Charon

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2004, 05:10:07 PM »

I dunno what people expected, but I'm happy with the Ki-84 ... for whatever that's worth.

Low speed handling is excellent, climb is pretty good, acceleration seems on par with the La's, guns close to as good as a Spit IX. Seems like a great base defense plane - La's and Spits won't be able to out-turn or out-accelerate it, and US or Luftwaffe fighters which get low and slow will have some problems.

Charon · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2004, 06:12:00 PM »

I think the main issue is top speed and Wep. I believe all that's being debated it about a 20 mph increase in speed SL to 20K. The handling issues are also being questioned, but I wouldn't know either way. Another 20mph would make a big difference, if it is appropriate.

Charon

bustr · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2004, 06:36:01 PM »

So in 44-45 how was the Ki84 beating our planes? Were after action reports lieing about it flying faster and out turning our planes below 20k? If the action reports and observations by allied personel are to be believed, is this plane not modeled correctly here, or was it issued only to "Uber" IJA pilots?

At low and medium alt, based on the after action reports, we could test this by asking 6 of our "best" to meet in the DA. Three fly Ki84 and 3 fly 51D, 47D-40, or P38. Certain results would be expected here based on the eye witness observations from the 1940's.

Widewing · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2004, 08:50:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
So in 44-45 how was the Ki84 beating our planes? Were after action reports lieing about it flying faster and out turning our planes below 20k? If the action reports and observations by allied personel are to be believed, is this plane not modeled correctly here, or was it issued only to "Uber" IJA pilots?

At low and medium alt, based on the after action reports, we could test this by asking 6 of our "best" to meet in the DA. Three fly Ki84 and 3 fly 51D, 47D-40, or P38. Certain results would be expected here based on the eye witness observations from the 1940's.

Have you actually read the after action reports? I've read many of them.

Officially (per Navy documentation), the F6F and and F4U killed Hayates (part of a group including the J2M3 and N1K2-J) at a rate of 8:1 and 6:1 respectively. You can find this in the Naval Aviation Combat Statistic-World War Two. Do a search for that in goggle and you can find the document in .pdf format on a government server (it's a 3.5 meg download).

P-38s maintained a similar kill ratio against the Ki-84. P-47s rarely encountered Hayates. However, the model that did was the blindingly fast P-47N. There was virtually nothing the Hayate could do to deal with the Thunderbolts. They had a similar problem with the Mustangs. All USAAF fighters could disengage at will. Exactly the same circumstances you will see in the MA if their pilots keep their speed up and use slashing attacks. Mistakes were made, and it took a mistake for the Nakajima to gain an advantage considering that the American fighters almost always had the advantage of altitude and speed from the outset. Speed and altitude determine the rules of engagement. Most of the time, the Japanese fighters were on the defensive, and that usually means taking a beating.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2004, 09:28:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I dunno what people expected, but I'm happy with the Ki-84 ... for whatever that's worth.

Low speed handling is excellent, climb is pretty good, acceleration seems on par with the La's, guns close to as good as a Spit IX. Seems like a great base defense plane - La's and Spits won't be able to out-turn or out-accelerate it, and US or Luftwaffe fighters which get low and slow will have some problems.

I have done a lot of testing with the Ki-84 over the past two days. It has very good acceleration from stall to 200 mph. However, from 200 mph to 300 mph, it's a pig. How so?

All tests done at 200 feet, speed stable at 200 mph, max power to 300 mph.

Spitfire MkV: 45 seconds to reach 300 mph
F6F-5: 45 seconds to reach 300 mph
Ki-84-1a: 45 seconds to reach 300 mph
F4U-1D: 43 seconds to reach 300 mph
P-47D-40: 41 seconds to reach 300 mph
P-51D: 39 seconds to reach 300 mph
P-38L: 38 seconds to reach 300 mph
La-7: 30 seconds to reach 300 mph.

All but the first two will walk away from the Hayate. The P-38 and P-51 do so easily. The La-7 simply checks out. Depending on fuel loads you may see a slight difference (all carried 50% except the La-7 which had 75%).

Don't think you can accelerate from any of the above, because you can't and will likely get whacked trying. Diving away won't work either. You will break the Hayate as speed nears 475-500 mph area and the others will run you down even if it doesn't break.

My regards,

Widewing

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2004, 09:34:44 PM »

I find the 175 - 250 mph range the most crucial for getting out of guns range. While the '84 can be run down, it felt (i.e. I didn't measure ... this is just subjective) like if it was in a slow fight it could break away from most planes. I wouldn't expect it to do well above 275.