Bogus....

[humble]

Originally posted by jpeg
HTC has repeatdly stated that buff guns are no more powerful than fighter guns. Obviously there are more of them.

Attack smarter next time and don't whine if you fail....jeez.

Actually HT has verified the multiplier....unless it was altered when buffs went to "formation" it still exists...

[humble]

Sigh....

Sometimes the overall wattage coming from the BBS astounds me......

1st it's not a whine...it's a complaint. There is actually a difference between the two. We all whine from time to time...I'm guilty of it and so is just about everyone who posted here. As an example my last two "whines"

1st) I get waxed in a furball and immediatly ***** at mars who is right on the cons six....he got an immediate apology on open channel...not his job to chk my 6. Thats typical frustration....

2nd) A perfectly timed microwarp that took HISPD from ~300 plane form shot to 1.5 behind me...whinned on 200 bout that:)....

Those are both clearly whines....


This is an ongoing issue regarding buff use....I have no issues with NOE....but if you allow 50 ft bombing or pop up bombing or suicide bombing now I need to either let em damage my base or intercept....since I'm not a score dweeb I do what I can...if they couldnt bomb I'd let em fly over field...but when 3 planes (one formation) can knock out all three FH on a small field like that you need to try.....

Now for the record (correct me if I'm wrong)....

1) when you fire a buff gun..all guns in the formation are slaved to that gun and "coverge" on target...so buff guns are always "on convergance" unlike other planes....

2) Buff guns have a damage effect multiplier that increases leathality

I believe both those statements are correct...


Now for those of you who have made comments on how easy it is to kill low buffs....not under the circumstances I describe. Yea its easy if your going to just let em drop and only attack when optimal....if you see a blur on the water (remember your not even seeing icons here) and its buffs 1/2 sector (12 miles or less) from your field going 300 mph...meanwhile your climbing out at 180 and 4k....its simple...you take the angle your given drop the nose hit wep and try and get a lick in on the lead plane...otherwise you lose all three FH's. I'd love to see anyone document the use of B-24s (or any hvy buff) in a tactical role flying NOE and pop up bombing a tactical target like an airfiled.

Now I have zero objection to Ju-88/A-20/Boston doing the above...those planes where all designed and utilized in exactly that type of role...even the B-26 is technically an "attack bomber" although I dont think it has quite the same capabilities as the others from a structural viewpoint...

[ghostdancer]

Two words....

skip bombing


In the Pacific 5th Air Force developed this technique and used it extensively. Primarily medium bombers .. plus B25s even were reconfigured with the 75 mm cannon to assist with attacking shipping.

Don't know of any heavies though doing skip bombing in the PAC though.

[humble]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
Two words....

skip bombing


In the Pacific 5th Air Force developed this technique and used it extensively. Primarily medium bombers .. plus B25s even were reconfigured with the 75 mm cannon to assist with attacking shipping.

Don't know of any heavies though doing skip bombing in the PAC though.

Skip bombing was done primarily with fighters or catalina's...also as you said medium bombers with outboard wing points (like A-20)...not easy to skip bomb with an internal bomb bay...

[Zanth]

Bombers so low as described here though the bomber itself would be blown up by any actual bomb attempt.  Clearly though one has to maintain good SA at all times in the MA, and I bet this never happens to humble again.  Next time he will land and thank the guy on 200 a few extra free kills he just gave him.

[humble]

Originally posted by Zanth
Bombers so low as described here though the bomber itself would be blown up by any actual bomb attempt.  Clearly though one has to maintain good SA at all times in the MA, and I bet this never happens to humble again.  Next time he will land and thank the guy on 200 a few extra free kills he just gave him.

I've personally seen all three FH's taken out by these "50 ft wonders" on multiple occasions. I could care less about the "free kills"...

[debuman]

Originally posted by eskimo2
Do you think that you could do better if each buff had 6 live gunners aboard?

The faster plane ALWAYS controls the fight.  In a fighter VS bomber you always have the choice to engage, run or reposition.  Your problem was that he was on final, so you only had a choice of attacking from a bad position while you could, or to run.

You bet that “they” would be too busy trying to approach for landing to man the guns.  You made the unrealistic bet that you could attack 3 bombers with 18 gunners aboard without being noticed, and then hose them all down because.  You figured that this would work because you expected that all 18 gunners would be in the cockpits helping the pilots land.  

You expected a freebie (or 3) because you knew the game makes an unrealistic concession of making a single bomber pilot do the jobs of 30 men.

You made the wrong bet, came here and whined, in spite of your name.

eskimo

Eskimo,
Maybe I read this wrong, but I got the impression that HUMBLE was the one on final, and was surprised by the pop-up buffs while on final, and didn't see them 'cuz they were so low.

RE: buff gun convergence.  The other day I was messing around with different gunsite right after takeoff.  Anyway, in trying to hit some spots on the ground with both the ball turret and the tail guns, I noticed that only my guns were hitting anywhere near the spot I had chosen as target.  the guns from the drones were no where near.  Maybe they don't "converge" until you're at altitude o soemthing, but at low level they didn't seem to be converging at all.

[ghostdancer]

No skip bombing was done alot with medium bombers in and around New Guinea (A20s, B25s, etc.). Of course the best altitude of skip bombing was around 200 feet.

Just found out that even B17s conducted some skip bombing.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/1290valor.asp
http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0594valor.asp
http://www.thehistorynet.com/wwii/blgeorgeckenney/

And the B25s generally were not bombing when they scrafed but they were definitely scraffers especially against shipping.

Not sure what altitude was used for parafrag bombing. Would be nice to have those also .. which we don't have now in AH2.

[Zanth]

at altitude use the Target command to pull up a test target.

example:

.target 500

Will set up a target 500 (or any range you want) yards out (It is always in same place I think due north)

.target 0

deactivates


edit:

you can move the same target closer and farther out, say you want to see theh bullet holes then type .target 100

[Zanth]

Originally posted by ghostdancer
No skip bombing was done alot with medium bombers in and around New Guinea (A20s, B25s, etc.). Of course the best altitude of skip bombing was around 200 feet.

Just found out that even B17s conducted some skip bombing.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/1290valor.asp
http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0594valor.asp
http://www.thehistorynet.com/wwii/blgeorgeckenney/

And the B25s generally were not bombing when they scrafed but they were definitely scraffers especially against shipping.

Not sure what altitude was used for parafrag bombing. Would be nice to have those also .. which we don't have now in AH2.

Just like in our lil game:

"AAF doctrine then held to bombing from altitude with nine-plane (when that many were available) squadron formations. Results had not been good, especially against maneuvering ships. Only about 1 percent of bombs dropped were hitting their targets. Clearly a better way had to be found.

[Karnak]

humble,

The BS whine part and your demonstrated "low wattage" in this case were yours claims that buff guns autoconverge when they do not and that buff guns are up powered, "x10 power" is how you put it and they are not.


In otherwords you buy into a couple of false myths and go on a rant about these things that don't happen being the reason you got shot down.

Given that they do not happen they obviously didn't play a part in you getting shot down.

I suggest you look for reasons elsewhere.

[slimm50]

Originally posted by humble
Anytime anyplace anywhere....any plane

I love this BS reply. The truth is simple....its not easy to kill buffs right on the water...especially if your not in optimal position...you either let em go or you take a beating. The game is set up to give buffs certain advantages...elevated hitting power and coordinated gunnery. No real issues, but when buffs are allowed to utilize those benifits in unforseen ways you create an issue....that simple.

You knew all this, and yet you attacked with no advantage. Shame on you, you got what you deserved:rolleyes:

[humble]

Vs just letting the buffs take out all three FH's slimm???

[TequilaChaser]

well outside of not being able to dive on buffs flying at 50 ft, because of possibility of going in as a lawn dart, you really have no other option at killing buffs except fly in fast and level , jinking as much as you can and taking pop shots.....

the rocket theory works very well, if you have rockets loaded.....

this is just another way for buff flyers trying to survive,  I saw 3 B24's flying so low they flew into a hillside because it could not pull up fast enough to clear them.....over land when in buffs on the deck it affects some of the players frame rates, they rather fly as low as possible with a frame rate of "7"  LOL instead of flying with some alt regardless if it is 1k to 20 k  just to have the ability of denying an attacking fighters to get below them....flying low like this keeps them from having to switch to the lower guns they can stay in the tail or top turret

[ghostdancer]

Just remembered something but at work so can't test.

But way back in AH1 HTC put into the code that bombs had to travel a certain distance to arm before they would go off. Something like 500 ft of distance.

This doesn't correspond exactly to alt. But it did correspond to the physical distance the bomb travelled on its drop before hitting the ground. Part vertical distance and part horizontal .. eg. bomb dropped doesn't just go straight down but continues moving forward also as it bleeds off the energy state of the aircraft that dropped it.

Now I don't know if its still in place in AH2. But if it is .. a buff flying at 50 ft and dropping its bombs would be useless. Its bombs wouldn't arm since it would travel far enough to arm the bombs at that alt.