Q: Sinking CV

[JB14]

Unless it hit a fueled up or bombed up plane or planes the full broadside of a 110 would not do anything but kill exposed crew members and break windows.

hmm, well a 30 mil is about and 1 1/4 of an inch, i think it would do more then just break windows. And it probably would easily disable those "armored guns" IMO. But ya I agree that killing a cv broad side would take more then that......

However about 110s they were first designed for fighters, but soon the LW used them as an attack plane. Realizing is was to big and slow for that purpose.The ju88s and other light/medium bombers were used to kill shipping.

Now, if we had ju88s with the "big daddy cannon" ...... O the mayham!

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Furball
i may be wrong.. but wasn't the essex class cv's deck made of wood?

I remember reading that during the kamikaze attacks, the US Navy cv's suffered badly because of their wooden decks, the kamikaze aircraft would smash straight through into the lower levels.  Whereas the British armoured flight decks would simply bounce the kamikaze off, bit of sweeping up and were still operational.

My point being..  wooden deck + 20mm + 30mm = bad!

may not sink a ship but would make for some nasty splinters.

You are correct about the wooden deck, furball.  But let's remember that NO Essex class carrier was sunk during WW2, but one Independence Class CVL was sunk--the USS Princeton.  The Independence class CVLs were armored to the same standard as the heavy cruiser design they came from--with deck and side armor--while the Essex class had no armor.  Princeton was sunk by friendly destroyers after a massive fire caused by a single 500 pound bomb.

One of the navy's truisms:  Ships are sunk by making holes that let water in, not by holes that let air in.  In the game they model ship damage as best they can, but in reality most CVs (not CVEs, those are an aberration) sunk during WW2 were sunk by FRIENDLY torpedos after damage control efforts were unable to put out the fires.

[GtoRA2]

while the Essex class had no armor

I think you are wrong here, the hanger deck was armored and I am fairly sure they had an armor belt.


I will have to check.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by JB14
hmm, well a 30 mil is about and 1 1/4 of an inch, i think it would do more then just break windows. And it probably would easily disable those "armored guns" IMO.

Your opinion is 100% wrong. The 30mm guns on the 110 were designed for AA use and had little to no armor piercing capability.

When fired at thin aircraft skins, the shell usually penetrated before it detonated.

When fired at an aromored plate (which is the majority of most exposed parts of naval warships) there would be no penatration and the detonation would occur on the surface causing powder burns at best. Even if you were to hit the exact same point with 20 rounds at the firing rate of the cannon, the the only thing that would happen is that the armor would be really hot.

CVs probably need a more detailed damage model than they currently have, but at the very least non-armor piercing rounds should do 0 damage to it.

[Sikboy]

Even if the wooden CV decks were suseptiple to taking damage form 30mm cannon rounds, I don't think the Destroyers or Cruisers would be all that effected.

In fact, I'm hopeing that someday we can have AP bombs as well as HE bombs. I often think about the Midway Paradox that the Japanese faced, which likely cost them the battle: Do you load HE bombs to attack the "soft" targets on land? Or do you load AP bombs to hit the "hard" targets (The US Fleet).  In Aces High we never have to make that choice, because Ships react to bombs in the same manner as any other object.

Hopefully the addition of Armor to the Gun turrets will be one of a few new additions to the Ship damage model. I know that the focus of AH is on the air war, but as a Pacific War fiend, I can't seperate the Naval and Air Aspects very easily.

-Sik

[mars01]

LOL, regardless of CV armor etc, do you know how hard it was for fighters/bombers to make it through the AA and flack barrage.

Very few attacks even made it close let alone hit it.

But as far as game play goes CV are way to soft!  CVs account for some of the best action and on some maps they account for the only action.

[wojo71]

HT has fixed easy cv kills now,lucky to get one battery with a pass by  a 110