Author Topic: Gunslinger's wife needs some help  (Read 1104 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« on: November 07, 2004, 04:11:08 AM »
OK Gents,

My wife is a professional bartender (I say that because it is an honorable profession that she's done for the last 8 years) anyhow, this new bar she started at she's ran into a snag and I'm asking anyone who knows anything about California bar laws or a site that might get me started to help in my search.

Story:  The owner of the bar were my wife works has turned into a di**head.  The bartenders all split tips BUT the owner started counting the bartenders tips.  There have been several occasions were the owner has gone and "made change" or taken money out of the tip jar without talking to the bartenders at all.  

example:  One night the bartenders ALL after split made about $400 cash each.  Twas a good night :) .  after that the owner decided he was the one that was going to divvey up the tips and no one has made that since then.  

To me this is an injustice.  The FDB's would agree with me that a bartenders tip jar is solem ground and not to be touched by ANYONE!  The point I'm trying to make here is that is there any law in the state of California that would cover bartenders in this situation.  

To me the owner seems like scum and is suposedly selling his bar in a couple of weeks but it all boils down to a matter a principle.  A bartender complains about an owner rumaging through the tip jar gets fired.   That's wrong.......what can we do?

I really don't solicit much from this group as far as personal help goes but I really do hold the bunch of you in high reguard.  If anyone knows any recources or starting points were I could start my own research please let me know.

Thanks gents


EDIT:

Also this guy figures out the tips for all the credit cards.  He's the olny one that does it and no one else.  My wife and all the other bartenders KNOW that their tips don't add up but they are afraid of getting fired.  To me it sounds like this guy is guilty of fraud.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 04:17:49 AM by Gunslinger »

Offline GreenCloud

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2004, 04:19:38 AM »
wow........................

I bartend part  tiem for a friend..I have been a Banquet Sales Manager for 4 years..

That is insane....only the bartenders touch their tips. Yes they tip out the barbacks..cocktail servers ect...but.//What..the owner is physically grabbing the tip jars?....WTF?..that is not right...

The bartenders need to say..umm..no ..we count our own..


Couple of questions..
1) Are the bartenders counting out there own drawers(Tills)? spelling

if so..they back out the credit card tips..ect..

I dont know off hand right now about Cali law on tips..I have never heard of an owner taking the tip jars..thats frikn crazy....I can find out tom tho...

I have soem INSANE bar stories of corrupt owners..(owner in our area was selling ex-plosives...grenades..ect from bar)  he was pouring WolfSchmitz Vodka into Grey Goose bottles...and thats only part of the story...He is now in prison..

btw..Cali is a "Fire at will" state..so a owner can fire whenever he wants...He can say..We dont get along..your fired...

Will ask about tips...

Salute
BiGB
xoxox

Offline Gunslinger

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2004, 04:39:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
wow........................

I bartend part  tiem for a friend..I have been a Banquet Sales Manager for 4 years..

That is insane....only the bartenders touch their tips. Yes they tip out the barbacks..cocktail servers ect...but.//What..the owner is physically grabbing the tip jars?....WTF?..that is not right...

The bartenders need to say..umm..no ..we count our own..


Couple of questions..
1) Are the bartenders counting out there own drawers(Tills)? spelling

if so..they back out the credit card tips..ect..

I dont know off hand right now about Cali law on tips..I have never heard of an owner taking the tip jars..thats frikn crazy....I can find out tom tho...

I have soem INSANE bar stories of corrupt owners..(owner in our area was selling ex-plosives...grenades..ect from bar)  he was pouring WolfSchmitz Vodka into Grey Goose bottles...and thats only part of the story...He is now in prison..

btw..Cali is a "Fire at will" state..so a owner can fire whenever he wants...He can say..We dont get along..your fired...

Will ask about tips...

Salute
BiGB
xoxox


BGB thanks for the help.  The wife says the Bartenders DO NOT count their own drawers and she is along the same lines as you as WTF is an owner doing coming close to the tip jar.  Also keep in mind on busy nights there is more than one bartender and they split tips.  I didn't mention that earlier and it might be relevent.  Even so spliting should be up to a manager and the counting should be done in front of the bartenders.

as far as "fire at will" I'm not sure how to put this but here goes.  There's a pending lawsuit against the owner allready for a bartender that he fired.  Would my wife have a case against him if she got fired as a result of questioning the owners integrety/counting skills after being paid?

Offline Leslie

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2004, 06:08:53 AM »
"Can I be forced to share my tips?

The answer is yes and no. Under California law, "involuntary tip pools" are permitted where the tips are shared with the personnel who provide the services for tips. For example, in a restaurant, this includes everyone who provide "direct table service", i.e. waiters and waitresses, busboys, bartenders, host/hostesses and maitre d's.

The most controversial aspect of tipping is when supervisors and owners share in the tip pools. This practice is not legal. Supervisors and owners cannot share in tip pools and tip pooling cannot be used to compensate the owner, manager, or supervisor of the business under any circumstances.

Your employer can neither take your tips (or any part of them), nor deduct money from your wages because of the tips you earn. Furthermore, your employer cannot credit your tips against the money the employer owes you."


............................. ............................. .

^

The above is info from a legal website Gunslinger.

http://www.harriskaufman.com/tips.html



I am not a lawyer or a bartender, and don't know anything about professional bartending laws, but there is a phone number you can try there.  Sounds like if the owner is keeping any of that tip money for himself, he is breaking the law.  




Les

Offline DieAz

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2004, 06:34:47 AM »
Free Tip for ya.
call the labor board. state or fed.
should be in the phone book under Gov't agencies section.

labor board sometimes doesn't do anything for stuff like vac, sick pay. but when it comes to wages and OT, they'll be all over the owner's ummmm butt.

Offline Curval

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2004, 08:17:59 AM »
Just be careful not to divulge too much information regarding tip "income".   When I did tax returns in Canada for friends of mine who were waiters and waitresses I recall them being on the...shall we say...conservatively LOW side when reporting "gratuity income".  I merely prepared the returns based on information they gave me.  THEY signed the return.

Don't go running to a state/federal labour board claiming the bar owner has reduced a nightly "take" of $400/night to say $200/night IF your wife, or her co-workers, have been claiming say $100/night on her/their tax returns.

If the boss is this nasty he might just ask the tax authorities to check on that, especially if you have "called the dogs" on him.

Just a word of warning.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 08:35:34 AM by Curval »
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Offline Dago

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2004, 09:03:11 AM »
Would it be possible for the working staff to keep the tips in their pockets or possesion some how and keep a running total of tips on the credit card bills?  Then at the end of the shift pool the money and divide it up?

If not, maybe they could all chip in and have the snot beat out of the guy.  :D

I hate when someone lets greed turn then into a scumbag.

dago
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Offline Lizard3

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2004, 09:24:44 AM »
Have your wife and fellow bartenders get together with the owner and say, "we know your stealing our tips. Job or no job, if you don't stop we'll break your F****** hands. If you fire any one of us, we'll all quit after we break your F****** knees. BEOTCH!"  

What he's doin is stealing. Does he pay them extra well as far as hourly goes? Didn't think so.

Offline eagl

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2004, 09:41:00 AM »
You could send a note to the local IRS office to the effect that the owner has been digging into the tip jar and not reporting it on his taxes...  Or casually mention that you wonder if the IRS knows the owner makes tip income when he can overhear.

Or have a friend (preferrably a big one) walk in, ask to talk to the owner, and say that he saw the owner digging into the tip jar and if he doesn't cut it out, he'll call the IRS and also sic the local health inspectors on the joint by saying he saw rat droppings on the bar.  If the guy says this as if he's just some random patron, it might not cause the owner to fire anyone.

If the owner is the type to burn his bridges though, he might decide to take everyone down with him and fire everyone before he sells the place.

If all else fails and your wife wants to just hit the owner below the belt, you can find out who the potential buyers are and let them know that the bar may be facing legal action as the owner has been stealing tips from the bartenders...  That might scare them away.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Airhead

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2004, 10:42:09 AM »
Owners don't get a portion of tips, unless they're working along side the employees. (You didn't say whether this was the case or not, I'm assuming it's not.)

Also I have NEVER heard of a bartender who didn't do their own drawer at a shift change.

Here's what you do (and it's important do do this before the place sells)-

 Try to document how much is in the tip jars every night, because without being able to prove how much he's stealing you can't demand compensation.

Once you know how much he's been skimming, talk to an attorney familiar with California labor law- have him write a demand letter to the owner stating the law he's been violating and demanding the portion of tips he has illegally kept for himself, plus whatever monies (that they can prove) he's stolen from the tip jar. Have the attorney list the employees under "whistleblowers" protection so they can't be fired in retaliation, and state any terminations without cause will be dealt with via the Labor Relations Board.

Here's why the demand letter- Once you've informed him he has illegally kept monies you can file a lien on his business and if it sells and goes into escrow you get your monies, or it at least puts the ball in his court so he has to address your lein before he closes escrow. The strategy is to jeopardize his sale to force him to settle.

 Actually if he wasn't going to sell there's very little you can do. The passage of Prop. 64 protects unscrupilous business peoples from advocacy litigation, so there will be no "free help" for your wife and her co-workers.

Now this is important- Document EVERYTHING at work. Keep a diary, and have your wife's co-workers keep diaries too. Tell your wife and her co-workers to keep their cool- don't walk off the job (sooner or later he'll try to get them to quit) don't show up late, don't give him any ammunition for justifible termination.

Offline rpm

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 11:16:51 AM »
I've seen an identical situation in Texas at a restaurant. The waitresses wound up getting hammered by the IRS for under reporting tips. They all lost their jobs and a new crop was hired.  He had a little profile on each of the waitresses showing they were disgruntled workers."You don't have to work there" is the line they heard from the labor board. The "ringleader" wound up moving because nobody would hire her afterward. Nothing happened to the owner.

Sorry, I know that is not what you wanted to hear. :(
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Offline Curval

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2004, 11:46:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
I've seen an identical situation in Texas at a restaurant. The waitresses wound up getting hammered by the IRS for under reporting tips. They all lost their jobs and a new crop was hired.  He had a little profile on each of the waitresses showing they were disgruntled workers."You don't have to work there" is the line they heard from the labor board. The "ringleader" wound up moving because nobody would hire her afterward. Nothing happened to the owner.

Sorry, I know that is not what you wanted to hear. :(


ding ding!

Be careful, as I said above.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Gunslinger

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2004, 12:05:20 PM »
Thanks for the help so far Gents.  The problem is other than this problem this is great place to work and she can make GREAT money working there.

Somoen asked if the owner was working behind the bar, the answer is no he walks back there and just takes the money.  At end of shift he's the one that counts them and he doesnt do it in front of the bartenders.

I never thaught of it in a tax evasion perspective, if he's stealing money it's income and he's probably not reporting it.  

and airhead....prop 64 doesnt change a thing.  My wife can still start legal action against him.  Prop 64 allowed a lawyer to do it without a complaint and could have pocketed the money.  Thanks for the help though.  

Lesli this is a great link.  I'm gonna print it out and highlight a few sections and have my wife hang it up in the break room or something.  Maybe that will scare him enough to quit.

Offline Dago

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2004, 12:19:01 PM »
I would think it would be easy enough to have the bartetenders keep a running total on the money put in the jar some night, even if it means putting only thier own money in, say a set amount, and stashing the real tips in a hidden jar for one night.  If the owner reports to them a lesser amount at the end of the night, they have him.  If he is stealing, file a police report.

They might be well advised to consult a lawyer, or the city attorney about their concerns.

dago
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Offline capt. apathy

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Gunslinger's wife needs some help
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2004, 12:34:42 PM »
to prove he's steeling you'd have to have a record of how much was put in (as airhead said).  you'd have to get everyone who shared off the jar to keep a good estimate of the tips as they go in and compare that to the total.  it'd also help if you had a night or 2 where the boss wasn't touching the jar and showing a more accurate count.

but as Curval said you'd have to have an accurate count of how much your tip earnings are.  and win or lose on this issue, you can bet they will use your evidence against you at tax time, and it will likely cost you much more than the boss is skimming (he knows this and it's why he's not worried).

  most waiters and bartenders I've met might claim maybe 20% of their actual tips, I've even seen waiters take a beating from other waiters for giving an honest count of their tips, since the others had audits due to their tips earnings being so different.  

not only will you lose more on taxes right now, but if she's worked their awhile (and under reported)the updated tip earnings could be used to adjust back taxes.

I'd probably handle it in a much more unofficial way.
  I'd have as many of the co-workers as possible get together in a semi-social setting (ideally off the work property), where the boss is present.  having one or 2 large friends, that the boss doesn't know, there as well really helps.  
  then just have a casual conversation about the tip jar, then immediately just change the subject and go to old work stories, one about a bartender who was caught steeling from the others and how he got his prettythang kicked by some co-workers after work, or something similar.
  then another guy brings up the story of how a manager or owner was caught ripping some people off, and how the victim had someone the boss didn't know mess him up.  then talk about the best part is how the guy kept working their for years because the boss couldn't prove which of the employees he had ripped off ordered his beating, and was afraid to fire anyone over it, since that would likely make the person behind the previous incident even madder than when he stole from them.

you're just telling old work stories.  no direct threats.  don't mention directly that you know his hands are getting sticky while he handles the money.  it's even better if you can avoid even saying anything directly too him, it's way more effective if he over-hears it.

he knows there isn't much you can legally do about it, and feels secure in stealing from you without risk.  so let him wonder if you intend to limit yourself to legal means.

  it's wrong (and illegal) to threaten a guy.  but it's not your fault if his mind wanders to a place that might lead him to a change of heart, and a new, more honest approach to tips.  he might just be one of those guys who needs a little nudge to get his mind wandering down the right path.