Originally posted by Karnak
Barbi,
Erm, which German high altitude fighters are you refering to? I've never heard of any in 1942. The first I know of is the Ta152, and yes, that one is a doozy.
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Karki,
so then you probably didnt hear about the Bf 109F-4/Z or the Bf 109G-1. The 109E-7/Z existed before that as well. And to leave the Germans, there was the Soviet MiG-3, too.
However I know of nothing in 1942 that matches the Merlin 61 Spitfire F.Mk IX,
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Hmm, actually the 109F-4 was faster, the 109G-1 was MUCH faster (over 700 km/h), the G-2/G-4 w/o any intercooler, any two stage cooler or other gimnick was just as fast. Not to mention, it was ten times as numerous in service...
or in 1943 that matches the Merlin 70 Spitfire HF.Mk IX,
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Again, 109F-4/Z, G-1, G-3, G-5, G-6/U2 etc. In fact the standard G-2 and G-4 wasnt that much off, maybe the HF Spit was some 10 km/h faster at altitude. And I mean the Spit HF IX, specially tuned for high alt performance, supposed to be the BEST high alt Spit at the time, which a mere 400 were built
during the whole war, so I guess during 1943 maybe a dozen were built, pitted against the most ordinary fighter types the LW had.. WOW.
So in 42/43 the LW had thousends of 109Gs built/in service with very good high alt performance, the RAF had a handful of Mk IXs with about as good high alt performance, and 90% of the RAF was flying MkVs with waaaaaaaay inferior altitude performance to either the 109F or 109G..
I guess it wasnt the
Jagdgruppes then that were concerned about finally getting some fighter with a comparable altitude performance to that of the enemy.. personally, I wouldnt be happy to meet a 109G at 8000m in a Spit MkV. Unfurtunately for me, chances are 9 to 1 that I will, I am flying in RAF colours in 1942, and for most of 1943.
or anything in 1944 that matches the Griffon 65 Spitfire F.Mk XIV.
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Hmm, Bf 109 G-5/U2/AS.
If you include 1945 as well, I could say K-4s with the Doppellader, but even the rest of the AS or D engined 109s were quite close to it - and far, far more numerous, some 6500 being built. But frankly I doubt the Germans ever knew what a Spit XIV was, or that it even exists. I doubt that many British pilots knew. Again too late, too few. A mere five squadrons flying it, equivalent of single LW Gruppe... on the other side, the LW had very large number of high altitude 109s in service, which were again much faster at altitude than the common MkIXs of the RAF. Ironically, the LW had more Me 262 in the units than as many Mk XIV units the RAF had.. so I guess the LW had no real reason to be concerned about the high alt performance of it`s fighters... they had some allergic reactions, though, namely the Ta-152s, a fighter designed for a threat that never existed, but in the process it become a lot more than what was needed. Or what could be handled by the opposition`s HA fighters..
There is a reason the British built the Merlin 66 Spitfire LF.Mk IX and it was because the critical altitude of the German fighters was all in the medium altitude ranges and the Merlin 61 was too high. [/B]
There is much truth in that. The RAF developed the Mk IXF, with a much heavier and more complex engine and shorter range than the previous models, other parameters being sacrificed for good high alt performance. That was the first time they come up with something that could be compared to the German fighters in altitude performance. Then in 1943 they found out such rated altitude isnt required at all, there is no common operational use for it, there are no enemy flights at that altitude, and without a pressurized cocpit, the planes themselves are not fit for operating at such altitudes.. so they reverted back to medium altitude fighters, the LF Spits... the LW also toyed with two staged engines with intercoolers at the same time for the 109 (and you dont want to compare the Merlin 61 to the DB 628), and found out that the neccesary bulk and weight of the intercooler eats up most of the performance gain, its impractical most of the time, and for such specialized task, the optional GM-1 is a much more practical solution. Most fighters could compare with the best (and rare) types the enemy had, without maintaince and other problems, could be produced and sent to the front quickly and i quantities, and when really high performance was required, there were the high alt, GM-1 wielding units that simply dwarfed other high alt fighters. I find the German approach a lot more practical. And in 1944, they could improve the existing fighters very simply by adding a larger supercharger to the side of the existing engine, the /AS types were little more than that, really.
