"Values" vote fact or fiction?

[Vudak]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
Sorry man - still ranting and editing

But you get the point. Its smoke and mirrors. No one can stop anyone from praying, and the religious zealots claiming that is happening are conning people.

Oh I agree with you, they sure are.  I mean, we got a moment of silence every single day don't get me wrong, I just felt it was too short to do much of anything with.

I'm not for a much longer one at all, but a bit  longer one seems like a reasonable request.  You're there from 7:30 till 3:00, what's 20 extra seconds

[crowMAW]

Vudak, thanks for responding.  A religion class may not be offered in your school because of the cost more than anything.  My high school did not offer classes in tennis or have a tennis team because of the cost.  It also did not have a course to teach the Russian language or Japanese.  These courses are all available later in college, including world religion.

So where is Laz, Nuke, Rip, Gunslinger...

I know Laz has posted elsewhere since he decided to "take the bait", but not here.

What's the deal Republicans?  Why afraid of the issues?

[crowMAW]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
Is it Chrysler's error for not starting every commercial with a moment of slilent prayer?

I dunno about before every commercial...but I know back in the late 70s -early 80s lots of Chrysler owners prayed every time before they turned the ignition key...hoping God would let the car start!

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by crowMAW
Vudak, thanks for responding.  A religion class may not be offered in your school because of the cost more than anything.  My high school did not offer classes in tennis or have a tennis team because of the cost.  It also did not have a course to teach the Russian language or Japanese.  These courses are all available later in college, including world religion.

So where is Laz, Nuke, Rip, Gunslinger...

I know Laz has posted elsewhere since he decided to "take the bait", but not here.

What's the deal Republicans?  Why afraid of the issues?

Did I say "pick pne"?  Nope. Me thinks you have been raised in one of those "new learning" schools the Dems look fondly upon by pumping massive amounts of taxpayers dollars, and you are the end result.  I don't think our political candidates are going to improve in the future...

As far as what the Dems think, I don't dwell on what one party or the other "thinks", I turn to myself for the issues, and which I agree with, and disagree with.  

Regarding school prayer, since it is federally funded, I don't think it should be allowed with the exception of using "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

[lazs2]

I am not even sure what the issue is.   I vote for the republicans cause if I don't the democrats will get in.   I vote on a straight gun and Hot Rod ticket and.... lower taxes.... I vote on who will be the less biggoted and fairest to everyone.   I vote on who gives me the most freedom.   I don't want people telling me to wear a seatbelt or a helmet "for my own good".   I don't want a "living constitution" that is "progressive" as liberals define progressive.

I vote with the christian right for the most part simply because we are voting for the same guy.   I fear all large organized groups... I fear christians too but less than I fear government or some of the large leftwing groups like the whacko environmentalists.   Chritians like me for my vote and my support for them but I am not someone they stay happy with for long.   They would not treat me kindly if they were all powerful.

I am for vouchers in schools..  let everyone go to the kind of school they want.   Don't care if they teach gayness or snake handling.... could NOT possibly do a worse job.

lazs

[lazs2]

to be fair to crow and be more specific in my answer...

I part with the democrats in that I want vouchers in schools... If you can't have vouchers and everyone has to attend the same school then you are making christians pay for an education that does not include their faith.  If their faith permeates every facet of their lives then you are in effect, denying them their rights and making em pay for it.

I would not pray in school nor ask my kids too but I would not be offended by a minute every day for silent prayer or meditation or... dozing off.

democrats are against vouchers and prayer in school at the same time even tho a huge portion of children are religious in one form or another...  I am  against the democrats in this because, in my opinion, like so many other things.... they are all about limiting choice and freedom.

next subject,,

lazs

[Airhead]

Originally posted by lazs2


democrats are against vouchers and prayer in school at the same time even tho a huge portion of children are religious in one form or another...  I am  against the democrats in this because, in my opinion, like so many other things.... they are all about limiting choice and freedom.

next subject,,

lazs

Lazs, so you are in favor of prayer in school? Would that be mandatory prayer, or can my child choose not to pray, or to pray to Allah? Just wondering where the "freedom" is in that. Personally I like that part of the Constitution that seperates Church and State.

Vouchers would bankrupt public education. Don't get me wrong, if I had it to do over again I'd have put my child in private school, but pulling the educational rug out from under children of less fortunate circumstances denies them an education, thus denying them equal opportunity...and ultimately denies them that which you cherish, choices and freedom.

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
...if the left had put up even a slightly stronger canidate with some kind of ounce of convicitions they would have trumped Bush big time.

Agreed, the Dems would have gotten my vote if the candidate would have had more substance.  So you’re extremely liberal, fine, then stand up for it.

If Kerry would have come out with conviction about his beliefs, although I may not have sided with him, there is a good chance he would have gotten my vote.  Standing with conviction on the voting history that he had would have swayed a lot more voters his direction.

I do not agree with everything Bush says and/or does but I can believe that what he says is going to happen will.  There are plenty of checks and balances in the government to worry about whether or not someone is swinging the righteous sword of god or is to progressive or liberal.

[Airhead]

Kerry lost this election in 1971 when he testified before Congress. To conservatives of the day he was a traitor, and to the anti-war movement he was a Johnny Come Lately building a political career.

[Otto]

Originally posted by crowMAW
I dunno about before every commercial...but I know back in the late 70s -early 80s lots of Chrysler owners prayed every time before they turned the ignition key...hoping God would let the car start!

I had a 1963 Valiant.  It listened to no God but itself.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Since when is the NY Times a right wing rag?  The Chigago Tribune? No wait I know, the Los Angeles Times. Or were you meaning Dan.... no? maybe Tom or Peter?  No must be CNN....

lol,  or the NY post, or the Boston Herald. Or were you meaning Rush, or O'rielly, wait, must be fox

[lazs2]

airhead... I am in favor of what I stated... I say give everyone some time to pray in their own way if all you offer is one crappy brand of education for the money.

if vouchers bankrupt the public school system then the public school system does not deserve to exist.  

In my opinion, the public school system does not deserve to exist as it does anyway... part time employees being paid full time salaries and benifiets... buildings left vacant for a large portion of the year... "progressive" methods of teaching that destroy the abilities of entire decades of students abilities to do simple math and reading... students graduating with 3rd grade of less reading and math skills...

it's about time the public school system got with it or went down the tubes.

lazs

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by lazs2
In my opinion, the public school system does not deserve to exist as it does anyway... part time employees being paid full time salaries and benifiets... buildings left vacant for a large portion of the year...

We live in different times today, both parents are forced to work to make ends meet. With kids getting out at two in the afternoon, it leaves them unsupervised for at least two to three ours. I think it would be great for schools to stay open til five or six to serve as day care and a rec center. The burden of finding day care is becoming a big and expensive problem, and I think a full time shift and expanding the school day would help to solve this problem.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Sixpence
We live in different times today, both parents are forced to work to make ends meet. With kids getting out at two in the afternoon, it leaves them unsupervised for at least two to three ours. I think it would be great for schools to stay open til five or six to serve as day care and a rec center. The burden of finding day care is becoming a big and expensive problem, and I think a full time shift and expanding the school day would help to solve this problem.

Also taking some of the money used for the War on Drugs and using it to fund after school problems might kill two birds with one stone.

Oh and CrowMAW, finances sure have a large part to do with it, but we definately have an extremely liberal jewish woman in our town who has successfully waged a war to ban pretty much anything about religion in our public schools too.  I believe my class was the last allowed to sing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer"

Just seems silly to me, we all sang the dradle song too, but she didn't want anything of it.  >shrug< some people just go to extremes.