Author Topic: Treating Religiosity (Read 2054 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #105 on:** November 14, 2004, 01:48:06 AM »

OK another good post, still I must disagree.

You dislike religion because you see data that religion is harmful or that religious people commit more crimes on average or whatver factual basis you have. You analyze that and broadly say I dislike religion.

This is no diffeerent, an no less wrong, than somebody saying they dislike black people because they see American murder statistics and conclude broadly that black people are bad.

Both are very broad categories to "dislike" and in both cases the person holding either of those preconceived biases will view their future interactions with religion or black people with that bias in mind. This is one of the common definitions of prejudice, coming into an interaction with a preconcieved idea about the other party. If total ignorance or lack of previous interaction were requirements of prejudice, racism or more broadly bigotry then no white southerner could ever be considered racist aginst blacks due to their centuries of very close contact, but we know this is certainly not the case.

So in all fairness, whether you like it or not, I must say that you are clearly prejudiced against religion.

Lazerus · « **Reply #106 on:** November 14, 2004, 01:54:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Suave
I also disagree that the second definition fits me.

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1: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

OK, so I'm trying to make a point too

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Very rude. Intelligence is not a factor in being disposed to religiosity.
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Face saving quote. Of course, recognition of the possibility of intelligence does not suppose tolerance.

Lazerus · « **Reply #107 on:** November 14, 2004, 01:58:34 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If total ignorance or lack of previous interaction were requirements of prejudice, racism or more broadly bigotry then no white southerner could ever be considered racist aginst blacks due to their centuries of very close contact,

The prejudice comes from judging the individual based on appearance, with no prior knowledge of that individuals character.

Suave · « **Reply #108 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:00:15 AM »

I'll show you how you're wrong. I could use the exact same arguments against you to show that you are prejudice dbecause you DONT dislike religion.

Basically you're saying I'm biggoted because I don't agree with a theory. I think it's wrong. I think religion is not the truth. It's a binary thing.

I also believe the world is round, all though I don't know that it is round. But my opinion is that it is. That doesn't make me a bigot.

Saying that all black people are bad because some are criminals is illogical. Therefore bigotry. Not an apt anology, but it does demonstrate that you do, as I have suspected, infact know what prejudice means.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #109 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:03:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Lazerus
The prejudice comes from judging the individual based on appearance, with no prior knowledge of that individuals character.

Exactly. But if you come to the interection with the preconceived analysis that you "dislike" blacks then that will taint your interaction with that person and yiur analysis of them.

And that is my concern with Suave's dislike of religion and is why I have critioized his views and arguments and doubted motives as I have.

Suave · « **Reply #110 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:05:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Lazerus
OK, so I'm trying to make a point too

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Very rude. Intelligence is not a factor in being disposed to religiosity.
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Face saving quote. Of course, recognition of the possibility of intelligence does not suppose tolerance. [/B]

I don't like the term tolerance, it implies that one party is doing something wrong, something that would require the other party to use self restraint. But I know what you mean.

I have friends, family who are religious, many of them smarter than me. I think it's irrational, and I tell them so. And I pretty much leave it at that. I'm not going to change anybodies mind. And frankly it's really uncooth to belittle somebodies worldview.

Lazerus · « **Reply #111 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:05:15 AM »

I assume that you are replying to GH. If not, then I'll be happy to respond when you show me how I'm wrong.

Lazerus · « **Reply #112 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:05:53 AM »

Suave · « **Reply #113 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:07:27 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Exactly. But if you come to the interection with the preconceived analysis that you "dislike" blacks then that will taint your interaction with that person and yiur analysis of them.

And that is my concern with Suave's dislike of religion and is why I have critioized his views and arguments and doubted motives as I have.

So would you say that you are prejudiced toward me because of my opinions about religion? Critisizing my views and all.

Lazerus · « **Reply #114 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:09:01 AM »

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Originally posted by Suave
And frankly it's really uncooth to belittle somebodies worldview.

Would proposing that a persons world view was based on a chemical imbalance, when the theory is very controversial, be considered belittling?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #115 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:10:04 AM »

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Originally posted by Suave
I'll show you how you're wrong. I could use the exact same arguments against you to show that you are prejudice dbecause you DONT dislike religion.

Basically you're saying I'm biggoted because I don't agree with a theory. I think it's wrong. I think religion is not the truth. It's a binary thing.

I also believe the world is round, all though I don't know that it is round. But my opinion is that it is. That doesn't make me a bigot.

Saying that all black people are bad because some are criminals is illogical. Therefore bigotry. Not an apt anology, but it does demonstrate that you do, as I have suspected, infact know what prejudice means.

You broadly say that religion is bad.

What do you base this on? Is it the action of a majority of religious people?

You say that boraly "religion" is bad because of some bad aspects of religion.

Religion as a broad concept is no different certain bad aspects or religiuous practice or thought than the broad black race is to certain blacks who may commit crimes.

Also let me ask you this, do you automatically forget your stated thourougly analyzed dislike of religion when you come accros religios topics?

I doubt it...

Suave · « **Reply #116 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:16:18 AM »

No I don't think bringing attention to an article about research of the part of the brain attributed with religion is belittling.

I found it very interesting. I find any theorys about the origins of religion interesting. As long as the theorys don't involve a god using magic.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #117 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:19:04 AM »

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Originally posted by Suave
So would you say that you are prejudiced toward me because of my opinions about religion? Critisizing my views and all.

Thats an intersting argument to look at.

Knowledge of your specific statements and attitudes towards religion definitely influenmced my responses to you in this thread on the same subject. You as a specific individual.

If I took my experiences with you and broadly generalized your views and turned them against all non religious people that would be wrong. But I didnt do that.

For example, I merely stated that I saw you steal an apple.

I did not say that all "Suavians"

are apple thives and thus I dont like them because I saw you take one.

In some way you do that by saying that you broadly "dislike" religion. Thats your prejudice.

AKIron · « **Reply #118 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:39:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Suave
No I don't think bringing attention to an article about research of the part of the brain attributed with religion is belittling.

I found it very interesting. I find any theorys about the origins of religion interesting. As long as the theorys don't involve a god using magic.

Origins of religion? Are you denying then any validity to the claimed historical basis for some of the world's religions? Are you saying that it was epilepsy that caused Moses to imagine he talked with the burning bush? Or that Jesus raising the dead is a lie? Maybe you're just comfortable dealing with the abstract?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #119 on:** November 14, 2004, 02:44:37 AM »

Suave how can you say that you are not an atheist when you say in that quote that you refuse to consider "god magic" as a source of religions?

If you dont consider a god as source of religion arent you clearly saying that all god religions are false, and this that their gods or other higher or othrewise sacred powers do not exist. Thus are you not an atheist?