Author Topic: Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???  (Read 1311 times)

Offline streetstang

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« on: November 15, 2004, 07:38:32 AM »
Right now we've got some of the best trainers AH could ever hope for. I am not familiar with how you all train, what you guy teach or preach. I not a trianer nor have I ever been involved in the training program you trainers created.

BUT, what about the rest?
When I say rest, I mean taking bases. Or if not taking bases the caping one

For example.

When you get to a base.

What are a few things to look for?

What should be bombed first?

What should be taken down first?

What are the first few BASIC steps that should be taken when arriving to a base.

I ask this only because I think many of the newer people do not know this.

I know I've come to a base, many times, and found all the ack up. Hangers down, ALL BUT THE VH, Flacks and M16s running about. Tigers in the towns and people are trying to take these places. Two hours later they are still at it. Bombing the FH's, taking down the BH's, and the town which by now is poping back up time after time. And they do not understand what is going wrong.

What could they have done differently that would have made a certain base easier to capture?

Ok now that those questions are out of the way I have a few of my own I'd like to ask.

Is there a manual per say, on tactics used to take a base? I mean BASIC here. I know this is going to sound silly to some but I think its important. Alot of the newer players only learn by watching. And as of late, they are watching all the wrong things. Many NEVER take down ack. Never Kill the VH. They bomb the FH's and think the base is dead. Well it is by no means dead. All that has done is made it more difficult to capture. Why? Because the VH. With half a dozen flacks on the field, you cannot cap a base. Heck you can't even fly near it. The majority of your bombs, are now gone, gone to the bombing of the FHs, so there is nothing left for the VH, or the Town, or the GVs.

Some of this stuff may be a given to some of you players. But the way I am seeing things, for some, it is not.

I mentioned the AH training program. The reason I did, is because I am curious about what they teach. I have a feeling its just ACM and or BFM. Which is fine, Im only curious here now.

I'd really like there to be some source of information for a new player to get his or her hands on that will tell them what to do when they are reaching an enemy base. What to look for. What to take down. Why and how to take something down... Ect ect.

If anyone is interested/concerned about this topic let me know.

I am very willing to help write up something and maybe make it available to the new players or anyone else for that matter.

Again, I have alot of respect for the AH trainers. So I dont want to make them think I am questioning their program or anything of the sort. I am just curious about this one aspect of the game and how it is perceived by the new players.

All
Morph
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 08:56:41 AM by streetstang »

Offline Max

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2004, 08:44:22 AM »
The nutshell version:

In order to take control of a base, you must capture a town. This is accomplished by taking down the two town acks and destroying the buildings. 4 Typhoons can accomplish that in one fell swoop. You also need 1 C-47 or an M3 for troops. So now you need 5 folks.

If your target is an NME base away from all the action, you have a 50/50 to get it done quickly, before the vehicles roll and base defending aircraft lift off. Add 4 more people; 2 to jabo the VH and 2 more to supress the field. Problem is, you now have field ack, puffy ack to contend with...add 3 more people to deal with that. 20 mm cannon rnds take down field ack a heck of a lot easier than 50 cals do.

Add the numbers and you need 12 people, all working in harmony and you can roll over a base rather quickly. Word of caution...if you don't get the job done the 1st time around, best to pick a new target and move on. Chances are, the NME will begin upping in numbers and counter-man your effectiveness.

DmdMax

Offline streetstang

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 09:04:08 AM »
Thanks Max.

Alot of the players know that you need to take a town down. I'm not saying this isnt' valuable information tho.

Often times, its the things that should be a given that are left undone.

Its really not all that complicated.

Way back when, we would trian on how to take all of the ack down in one pass. Or two if you are alone. We'd practice base strikes. Go in, Kill the VH, Kill the ack on both the field and the town and the rest of the work would follow. Things like killing the town, and dropping troops.

Now it seems as though new players think a feild must be completely destroyed in order for a capture to take place. But for some reason they still dont bother with the VH. Something that completely puzzles me.

SOME if not all of these things, like I said should be a given. They should just be comon sense things. But they are over looked time after time.

Offline fuzeman

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 09:27:56 AM »
The big problem is not being able to strap those young/old wippersnappers into the chair and give them 100% of everything the game is made up of.
Usually you range from 'How do I fire and what do I kill?' types that then rush off into the MA to some that just want to know about certain aspects of the game like calibration and level bombing or some BFM/ACM type of stuff.
If we could velcro them to their seats and wrap their knuckles when they ran off without knowing all we had to teach we would do it.
When I train, I basically get the basics down and then never see them again or hear from them although a few have continued with training. 99.9% of the time they are told where to ask for more training and how to arrange it but few follow through to learn the whole encylopedia on AH.
Another aspect is the game can be played more than one way and if they're paying their $14.95 they'll do what they want. Some want to bomb, some want to furball, some chase the rank and try to improve that.
Some of this falls into on the job training though also after you've joined a squad or been flying awhile and want to look at the big picture.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG54

Offline TequilaChaser

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2004, 09:33:56 AM »
Taking A Base:

take down VH 1st: 1 attack plane 2k eggs / rkts ( 1 back up attack plane )

take down field ack 2nd: 2 attack planes ( rkts/cannon eqpd planes ) ( 1 back up )

take down Town ack: 1 attack plane ( 1 back up )

cap air field: ( use the 2 back ups for this )

take down town: 3 Attack Planes ( prefer these to be A20s  or P47D40s :D  )

bring in goon, take field

you should always nail the VH 1st along with the field and town ack, once down cap the runways, usually as said before a well planned flight and you can easily do this with 10 ( 9 attack planes 1 goon/or M3 ) you do not need to kill the Fighter Hangars, fuel, ord or ammo or trops, nor the bomber hangars). Taking the field the first try is the key, it does not hurt to have a backup goon so that would make it 11 people total..........

Another key is to take a base that is not being used alot or near the front of battle.  We have been able to take fields by using 2 panzers and 1 Osti and 1 M3,  once the enemy realizes what is going on the town is near down, the osti is covering the M3 and panzers give additional  fire cover, if you plan it right you will be successful.

Using the right planes for the job, and planning it well before you start is the key factor. Missions are fun but by the time they take off, most  things have changed for the worse. It is best to get a grp of flyers and practice with them. Once you get it down to an art you can take a base a the snap of your fingers! and you will not waste time, or extra flights over and over trying for something that is just not gonna happen because you did not plan accordingly to begin with.......

( In AH1 you could take a field with 1 goon and 4 fighter/attack planes, it is near the same in AH2 just need a few extra planes  )

;)
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 09:48:50 AM »
The way most of us see it happening in the MA now:

Channel 2:
xxx: goon inbound to A33 , town status please
000: you jerk you cut infront of me while I was trying to vulch him
222:well I was vulching him too, so there
xxx: town status A33, goon inbound
777:well I was going for him too, but only got an assist
333:dang field ack nailed me
444: osti shot my wing off
xxx:town status please? A33
000: M16 just nailed me crap
xxx: have town insite town is up I think
000: in on the spit rolling
000: I augered DFGFHUNHUSBBA
222: I will try for the town
222:town ack kilt me
xxx: La7 got me, but don't matter, you dweebs never had town down anyhow!

We see this every single day in the MA in AH2.......in all 3 countrys...........

and prob the ones doing this never read the AH message boards or go to training, and if you even tryed to offer help they tell you to backoff!

:D
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Vudak

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 10:05:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser


Channel 2:
xxx: goon inbound to A33 , town status please
000: you jerk you cut infront of me while I was trying to vulch him
222:well I was vulching him too, so there
xxx: town status A33, goon inbound
777:well I was going for him too, but only got an assist
333:dang field ack nailed me
444: osti shot my wing off
xxx:town status please? A33
000: M16 just nailed me crap
xxx: have town insite town is up I think
000: in on the spit rolling
000: I augered DFGFHUNHUSBBA
222: I will try for the town
222:town ack kilt me
xxx: La7 got me, but don't matter, you dweebs never had town down anyhow!

:D


:rofl
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline streetstang

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2004, 12:17:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
The way most of us see it happening in the MA now:

Channel 2:
xxx: goon inbound to A33 , town status please
000: you jerk you cut infront of me while I was trying to vulch him
222:well I was vulching him too, so there
xxx: town status A33, goon inbound
777:well I was going for him too, but only got an assist
333:dang field ack nailed me
444: osti shot my wing off
xxx:town status please? A33
000: M16 just nailed me crap
xxx: have town insite town is up I think
000: in on the spit rolling
000: I augered DFGFHUNHUSBBA
222: I will try for the town
222:town ack kilt me
xxx: La7 got me, but don't matter, you dweebs never had town down anyhow!

We see this every single day in the MA in AH2.......in all 3 countrys...........

and prob the ones doing this never read the AH message boards or go to training, and if you even tryed to offer help they tell you to backoff!

:D


So true. :(

Offline Murdr

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Offline MaddogJoe

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2004, 06:45:33 PM »
Hey Morph,

You know "we" know how to get it done. AH2 made it a bit tuffer by increasing the town size, but with organization, and team work its still a piece of cake.

The problem is that there really are no "leader's" any more.  Now a days it mostly dive in shoot something, be it vulch, bomb a CV or building, and lawn dart. Or get hooked into a fuball. With the bigger numbers in the arena, you have more chances of people "gaming the game" by using two acounts, switching sides and spying, and so on, that most of the people that use to run the missions, or just "lead" don't bother any more.

When I was CO of the Mafia, I ran missions alot, Mugz followed and ran a million or two. Mugz ran so many successfull missions that the country use to look to him to lead them every time he was on. But after getting so many missions "suprisingly" busted that he got tired of it and stopped.

I'm sure alot of the others that use to run missions all the time got burned the same way. Building a mission isn't tuff, but it takes time. Using the mission planner saves time, but you can't control "who" views the plans and the spys join more quickly than your contrymen ! SO nobody wants to "waste" time on building and running missions any more, because it just isn't worth it to design, build, explain, adjust and run the mission only to get to target and find 30 guys circling at 30k waiting for ya.

TC layed out the basics, but untill you can control "who's" in your mission, you'll have to beg for people to jointill you build a rep as a good mission planner, and hope the spies leave ya alone. Of course if you build a rep as a good mission planner, the enemy is going to be gunnin for ya ;) kind of a catch 22

Newbies won't know the trill of a well run plan till maybe TOD. Missions are too easy to bust by spies and dual accounters right now for any one to really take the time to do it again. Morph you remember when you first started, there were missions all the time, you spent more time in a bomber than a fighter back then :) Till the "community" pulls out of this (lets take the easy way out) attitude it seems to have fallin into, or HTC gives us private ready rooms for mission briefings, I'm afraid the newbies will just continue as TC posted in his 2nd post with the channel 2 dialog  :(

Offline Vudak

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2004, 01:06:31 PM »
Guess I'll throw in a few thoughts in case someone new's reading this.  Not really "tactics" so much as an etiquette for flying around a base your pals are trying to take.


1.  If you are in a cannon-armed plane, take out the ack.  Call out on range and ask someone to help you with this because you're less likely to get shot down if there's more then one target.

It only takes one burst from a cannon to knock out the ack and you don't even have to hit it dead on, whereas with machine guns, you do have to hit it dead on, repeatedly.  It's just like vulching in a FW vs. vulching in a Mustang.  In the Mustang you actually have to hit your target repeatedly to blow it up on the ground.  In a FW, you just have to land a few shells pretty darn close and the high explosive striking the ground takes care of the rest.

2.  If you are planning on bringing a Machine Gun only plane, by all means grab some bombs or rockets.  Target the Vehicle Hangar (VH) first.  You can see where the vehicle hanger is by bringing up your clipboard, right clicking on it, going to "clipboard maps" and scrolling down to the size of airfield you are attacking.  After a few times doing this, you should be able to "know" where it is without this hassle, but it never hurts to double-check.

These are the two most important targets.  Recently, many players have become very skilled at using both manned ack and flak panzers.  Therefore, if a base is to be taken, it is imperative that they are denied the option of using either, as you must remember that every attacking plane shot down has at least a 3-5 minute flight from a sector away to rejoin the attack, whereas any defending planes shot down can try to take off again immediatly.  If local air-superiority, or at least parity, is to be maintained, no friendly planes can be allowed to be shot down by ground fire.

The Fighter Hangers can be a useful thing to take down, but their destruction is not mandatory to successfully take an airfield.  The town's destruction, however, is.  If you have enough support near the field it is *usually* ok to leave the FHs up.  (And always more fun IMO).

3.  If you are vulching a field with 8 other people, and only two defenders keep trying to take off, you are wasting your time.  Talk to people, let them know you're going to go throw 50-100/whatever cannon/mgs down on the town, and that you'd like a spot in the "death rotation" afterword.  It's just a little impromptu agreement, but hey, vulching is undeniably fun (for awhile, at least) so no sense in you missing out on it! Just no sense in missing out on the base capture either.  

Basically just ask yourself this question:  "Can I kill 3 town buildings in the amount of time it takes to maybe  get three assists vulching?"  If the answer is yes, head over to the town.  You'll have your chance to vulch later, it's a never-ending fact of life in Aces High.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Diamond

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ready rooms
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2004, 07:59:43 PM »
quote from previous post..

Newbies won't know the trill of a well run plan till maybe TOD. Missions are too easy to bust by spies and dual accounters right now for any one to really take the time to do it again. Morph you remember when you first started, there were missions all the time, you spent more time in a bomber than a fighter back then  Till the "community" pulls out of this (lets take the easy way out) attitude it seems to have fallin into, or HTC gives us private ready rooms for mission briefings, I'm afraid the newbies will just continue as TC posted in his 2nd post with the channel 2 dialog


__________________
" or HTC gives us private ready rooms for mission briefings, I'm afraid the newbies will just continue as TC posted in his 2nd post with the channel 2 dialog "--MDJOE


That would seem to be the next big step. Not another plane...another tank...or even submarines.   If those are the next major choices by management then we'll know that they have more interest in the number of accounts active than in what those accounts are doing.

Private ready rooms " WITH ROOM ENTRY CONTROLLED BY THE MISSION PLANNER" were an excellent way for us in Airwarrior to plan missions in total privacy.  They seem as if they would serve admirably here as well.

Thanks MDJoe for reminding me of all the DoNut deliveries and fun times in the old ready room while planning the next major run.

Pilots could ask questions...get assignments clear and all be ready to go without intrusion....all done with shared map , and  color coded route  markers viewed by all and controlled by mission leader.

I think it might do alot for comeraderie also and revitalize online squad ops.  
I think in the long run that that would be more of a financial plus for keeping the game alive than more eye candy and game twists.

just my opinion, of course

Diamond

Offline -MZ-

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Re: ready rooms
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2004, 08:05:48 PM »
Lots of people can't even see the AA guns, so it is not a surprise that they don't get taken out.

Offline Vudak

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Re: Re: ready rooms
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2004, 08:24:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -MZ-
Lots of people can't even see the AA guns, so it is not a surprise that they don't get taken out.


CC, you can't see em till your on top of them alright, but hey, you can at least see where they are suppossed to be.
Vudak
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Offline JB73

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Ok so we can fly planes.... What about the rest???
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2004, 11:28:09 PM »
probably posted before....


VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH VH

oh yeah, the VH should go down first.

nothing stops a base capture faster then an ostwind killing all your base supressers, OR getting to the town just as the last bomb is dropped so noone can kill him. all he has to do is drive so he's facing the map room and strafe tghe troops with the indestructable pintle gun.


a close second is the manned ack. then all the other act base and town.

with a properly supressed base (by 4 experienced pilots) you can take a week to kill the town, nothing will interfere. we just showed that at A18 tonight. capped 18 for almost 30 min waiting for a tank in the town to be killed. poor m3 waited over 40 min total.





all this is considering no enemy GV spawns come in near the town, because then you have to go ahead and kill that VH too.

if an la7 does come in for a nearby base, generally they get target locked, and bleed E trying to kill the "vulchers" hence an easy kill for other supressers.
I don't know what to put here yet.