Author Topic: Chirac Comments....  (Read 2423 times)

Offline straffo

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2004, 02:01:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pei
During last year certain members of the US Administration were accused of being un-diplomatic and unconstructive by many including Chirac. Now it seems the shoe is on the other foot.


Certainly but  don't use this the 1st post in thei thread as a reference as it's nothing but 3 out of context sentences with Bremner interpretation.


Nice ones Holden :).


Steve : dohhh, like I care of the opinion of someone more than 5000km from me.

VWE : nice to see you learn your country history each day :rolleyes: ,I'm not American but I heard of Louis Rose
I guess that if I say 1515 you don't know what I will refer to.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2004, 06:03:44 AM by straffo »

Offline wipass

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2004, 02:47:14 AM »
France bashing is rather Childish Gentleman, The USA is set upon world domination, the only antidote is a Strong and United Europe. Let's be fair, the UK have received not a jot in return for supporting the USA in Iraq.

Only weeks ago the UK were stopped from Purchasing military equipment from the USA because it was deemed to sensitive and we might share it with our European allies. What does that say ....

wipass

Offline Rino

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2004, 02:55:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wipass
France bashing is rather Childish Gentleman, The USA is set upon world domination, the only antidote is a Strong and United Europe. Let's be fair, the UK have received not a jot in return for supporting the USA in Iraq.

Only weeks ago the UK were stopped from Purchasing military equipment from the USA because it was deemed to sensitive and we might share it with our European allies. What does that say ....

wipass


     Well apparently when we finish conquering the world, we'll
need alot of butlers

     From the media it seems like Blair is the one supporting the
US, while 60% of our UK "pals" are protesting against the USA.
80th FS Headhunters
PHAN
Proud veteran of the Cola Wars

Offline Holden McGroin

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2004, 05:02:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wipass
The USA is set upon world domination, the only antidote...


The only antidote to your perception is a dose of reality.

The USA had a nuclear monopoly from '45 to '49 and did nothing with it other than the single event of ending the bloodiest war in history.

Since WW2, the USA has given up a possibility of dominion over the Trust Territory of the Pacific, the Phillipines, Japan, the American zone of Germany, the Panama Canal zone, and many more.  The USA could have taken over much of western Europe, and instead undertook a program rebuilding political and economic sovereignty of those nations.

Cuba was given up before WW2, with a lease arrangement of Guantanamo Bay.

Units in the Balkans and Europe are there via Nato obligations.

A lease of Diego Garcia and agreements with sovereign countries like Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, and Tajikistan help with the UN mandated multinational operation in Afganistan.

Saudi and Yemeni operations with agreements of those governments allow for the hunt of Al Queda operatives.

Units in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait are there via agreements with the host countries and support not only the present Iraq conflict, but the previous UN mandated action against Iraq.

You will note that with the exception of Iraq, forces are in each country with the treaty obligations of NATO, the UN, or by bilateral agreements with host countries.

With Iraq, the announced intent to withdraw after the Iraqi government is stabilized, while somwhat nebulous, should be comforting to you.

Agreements and negotiations with host countries is an interesting tactic for world domination.  Or did I get your intent wrong... are you referring to the almighty Big Mac or Mickey Mouse?
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Offline Goth

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2004, 06:31:22 AM »
Excellent points Holden. I truely hope the Euro's don't think America wants to dominate the world, but that may just be the general view of us over there.

Straffo, I hear what you are saying about the bashing. Now, here's your chance, give us your honest views and feelings on Chirac's comments and enlighten us on the alleged deal the French had with Hussein.

Offline Tinpot

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There are two types of people
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2004, 06:47:49 AM »
There are two groups on this board. Those with some intelligent contributions and those who just bash anything un american! I'll leave you to decide who you are.

By the way the French make some fantastic wines.

Offline Habu

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Re: There are two types of people
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2004, 06:55:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tinpot
There are two groups on this board. Those with some intelligent contributions and those who just bash anything un american! I'll leave you to decide who you are.

By the way the French make some fantastic wines.


So does South Africa, Napa valley, Ontario, Chile and a number of other places. No need to buy French at all even if they are good.

Wines from all of those places consistantly take first prize in international wine competitions.

If you buy French you are only supporting the French economy.

Offline wipass

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2004, 06:55:04 AM »
"A lease of Diego Garcia and agreements with sovereign countries like Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, and Tajikistan help with the UN mandated multinational operation in Afganistan.

Saudi and Yemeni operations with agreements of those governments allow for the hunt of Al Queda operatives.

Units in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait are there via agreements with the host countries and support not only the present Iraq conflict, but the previous UN mandated action against Iraq."

Do you really believe all of the above Countries invited you without any arm twisting or threats  made to/against them ?

Come on ........

Offline straffo

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2004, 07:06:51 AM »
Quote
Straffo, I hear what you are saying about the bashing. Now, here's your chance, give us your honest views and feelings on Chirac's comments and enlighten us on the alleged deal the French had with Hussein.


Ok, I consider chirac played a stupid game with Bush administration about Iraq. The USA is a super power we're not anymore but we have a place on this game.
I think sadly that the current administration don't look to want to play a fair game and need a sort of counter power ,the US have a leading role on this planet currently (super power again) that's right ,but the US can make mistakes we have in the past made lot of error some pretty tragic one indeed.

Invading Iraq fueled hatred to the US in lot of country I think there will be a sort of payback for the US in the future (note that I'm not asking for it).

It look like that the actual administration forgot how vulnerable is a democratie especially when dealing with people who don't have our culture and are ready to die.

In Bremner article there is an important part IMO :
Quote
Mr Blair also said that Europe had a big opportunity because the US realised that lasting security against terrorism could not be provided by conventional military force but required a commitment to democracy and freedom.

I think helping democraty in Iraq would have been more efficient than an military invasion (albeit very slower) and would had a better outcome.

I'll try to make later a more structured post as this one is not very clear and I've not really enought time now to make a better post.


Concerning the alleged deal if prooved and judged I expect to see some head rolling ,the guys prooved guilty should pay.

Offline Tinpot

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What realy bothers me
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2004, 07:13:00 AM »
Is that their is only one nation with the kind of military power to attempt to enforce its world view on the other nations of this world. That is not a healthy situation.

I'm no great supporter of many things our neighbours over the channel do, but I'm not such a bigot that I write off a nation because of what one individual says. Thats just plain stupid.

For the record I am concerned that America is taking a very unilateral and self righteous direction, backed by huge military might. Be carefull because at some point America will find it has more enemies than freinds. Currently our nation is counted as a freind but freindship goes two ways. Some of the earlier posts were correct in saying that so far that freindship has resulted in a very one sided relationship. People here are not very happy about that.

When those enemies wake up and realise that together they are stronger, the USA is in deep trouble.

We all live on this planet and diversity is important.

(a bit rambling but thats what I think how about a reasoned response rather than some of the c**p that I read? )

Offline DREDIOCK

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2004, 07:26:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wipass
France bashing is rather Childish Gentleman, The USA is set upon world domination, the only antidote is a Strong and United Europe. Let's be fair, the UK have received not a jot in return for supporting the USA in Iraq.

Only weeks ago the UK were stopped from Purchasing military equipment from the USA because it was deemed to sensitive and we might share it with our European allies. What does that say ....

wipass


  The way I hear it is Blair supported the US in this endeavor because Blair beleivedIraq was the same threat Bush did. and that after 9/11 a policy of preemption over reaction was the best coarse to take.
Not bcause he was looking for something  from the US in return.

  Of coarse that was before agents from France,Germany, and Russia helped Saddam hide or get rid of the WMDs so as to embarrass the US and UK when none were found.

The most immediate thing Blair was looking for from Bush is action in the Isreali/Palastinian situation.
But thats kinda hard to do untill you know who is in charge And the USA doesnt want ot come off as supporting one guy over the next too early as  it would certainly be the kiss of death for whoever that person might be because he would be seen by the locals as a puppet to or too friendly with  the USA
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Offline Momus--

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2004, 07:34:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK

Of coarse that was before agents from France,Germany, and Russia helped Saddam hide or get rid of the WMDs so as to embarrass the US and UK when none were found.


Hilarious, you really believe that don't you? And you guys wonder why we laugh at how dumbed down and credulous your society has become.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2004, 07:44:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Ok, I consider chirac played a stupid game with Bush administration about Iraq. The USA is a super power we're not anymore but we have a place on this game.
I think sadly that the current administration don't look to want to play a fair game and need a sort of counter power ,the US have a leading role on this planet currently (super power again) that's right ,but the US can make mistakes we have in the past made lot of error some pretty tragic one indeed.

Invading Iraq fueled hatred to the US in lot of country I think there will be a sort of payback for the US in the future (note that I'm not asking for it).

It look like that the actual administration forgot how vulnerable is a democratie especially when dealing with people who don't have our culture and are ready to die.

In Bremner article there is an important part IMO :
 
I think helping democraty in Iraq would have been more efficient than an military invasion (albeit very slower) and would had a better outcome.

I'll try to make later a more structured post as this one is not very clear and I've not really enought time now to make a better post.


Concerning the alleged deal if prooved and judged I expect to see some head rolling ,the guys prooved guilty should pay.


What Chirac is trying to do is position himself to be the ultimate undisputed leader of the EU.
 His talk Im sure is carfully calculated to make him look tough (for lack of a better word) in the eyes of and gain the support of the European people.

Helping Democracy in Iraq would have been a great choice but for 3 problems. Namely Saddam and his two sons. So long as Saddam was in power there would be no Democracy. And his heirs apparent his sons looked to be just as psychopathic if not more so then their father.
Containment was not really an option or we would most certainly end up with another North Korea situation, only faster because Iraq had plenty of something the North Koreans could only hope for. Oil which is just as good as gold. Which ment they had the means to  buy off enough people n the right places to acheive its goals.

Which in the end would have put us in a far more dangerous situation then we had been because Saddam not only had the desire and means to posess WMDs.
But the willingness to use them
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline DREDIOCK

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2004, 07:45:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Hilarious, you really believe that don't you? And you guys wonder why we laugh at how dumbed down and credulous your society has become.


Yes I do really beleive that.
Just a pet theory of mine that I have a funny feeling will bear fruit and prove to be true sometime in the future.

Certainly would make alot of peices to the puzzle fall into place
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Holden McGroin

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Chirac Comments....
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2004, 07:50:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wipass
Do you really believe all of the above Countries invited you without any arm twisting or threats  made to/against them ?

Come on ........


When you sell a car, you make a deal.  Or do you claim that the party who bought it from you stole it?
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!