Author Topic: 190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun  (Read 2765 times)

Offline JB35

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« on: November 18, 2004, 10:03:23 AM »
Found this and thought it would be a nice addition to the guns on the F-8


http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2164

Offline Panzzer

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2004, 11:04:39 AM »
I don't think they were used in combat. The SG113A 'Förstersonde' was installed in at least one Fw 190 F-8 (Werk Nr 582071) in October 1944, but probably no more prototypes were finished and it never went into production.
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Offline humble

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2004, 12:17:05 PM »
From the info on the site it appears to have beem deployed in combat.....


One of the most interesting weapon of the FW190 was the SG 113A "Fostersonde". It was a couple of 77mm antitank-recoiless guns installed vertically in the wings of the plane. When it was passing above a column of enemy tanks , these weapons were activated by the electromagnetic field generated by a tank and began to shot downward, penetrating easily the little armor on the superior part of the tanks. This weapon was employed particularly on the eastern front.

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Offline airbumba

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2004, 03:20:56 PM »
well if that ain't the darndest thing....i guess it can't be reloaded inflight?
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Offline Tony Williams

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2004, 03:32:04 PM »
You guys need a copy of 'Flying Guns - World War 2: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45' :)

This is an extract:

"More unusual was a series of German weapons designed for upward (or, in one case, downward) firing and intended to be triggered by automatic sensors. These were known as the SG series (usually given as Sondergerät = special equipment, but other contemporary documents give Schiessgerät, or shooting equipment). They were late-war developments which were tested but did not enter service. The SG 117 consisted of seven MK 108 barrels, each loaded with a single 30x90RB round, which were clustered together for firing upwards at bombers. The total weight was 28 kg. The barrel block slid downwards out of the aircraft during firing, sequentially triggering the shots as it did so (at an effective rate of 10,000 rpm) and simultaneously absorbing the recoil. A more conventional recoilless approach was taken by the SG 116, which consisted of three 30 mm barrels (each weighing 30 kg) firing special combustible cardboard RCL cartridges (315 g at 860 m/s ), and the 50 mm SG 500 Jägerfaust (1 kg - containing 400 g of HE - at 400 m/s). In both cases, the recoil was balanced by firing a counterweight from the back of the gun, as originated in the Davis guns; in the Jägerfaust, the counterweight was the cartridge case which was also extended upwards to act as the barrel. The firing of all three types was by electro-optical sensors as they passed beneath the target aircraft. An even more ambitious project was the SG 113, which was intended for attacking tanks. It consisted of a 7.5 cm gun firing a 4.5 cm saboted projectile downwards at 650 m/s, once again balanced by a Davis-type counterweight. Total weight of one barrel was 48 kg. The gun was intended to be triggered by the electrical impulse caused by flying over a tank at low altitude, but this proved unreliable.

Even more unusual was the 2 cm Harfe (harp) which consisted of single-shot RCL barrels (using the gas jet principle) firing fin-stabilised 135 g shells at 320 m/s. The barrels weighed 2.3 kg each and were intended to be assembled fifteen or twenty at a time, pointing upwards for attacking bombers and arranged in a line to minimise aerodynamic drag (hence the name). This was as fruitless as all of the others."

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Offline Zanth

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2004, 01:45:56 PM »
About the only "big gun" WWII plane I can think of is the B25-H

Offline Tony Williams

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2004, 02:31:37 PM »
Try these: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm

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Offline Panzzer

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2004, 06:03:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
About the only "big gun" WWII plane I can think of is the B25-H

If I'm not completely mistaken, Hs-129's were equipped with the 75mm BK 7.5.

Anyways, back to the 190F-8, through some googling and reading "the Butcher Bird" it seems that no more than 3 prototypes with the SG113A were completed, so I doubt that the 77mm AT gun saw any action on Focke-Wulfs. Unless there were some field modifications...

edit: Sorry, Tony, read your article after posting... Thanks! :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 06:12:20 PM by Panzzer »
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Offline MiloMorai

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2004, 08:08:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
About the only "big gun" WWII plane I can think of is the B25-H


Did not the Piaggio P108 have big cannon? 102mm iirc.

Offline FUNKED1

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2004, 03:28:56 AM »
Most of the 190 pilots I have interviewed say that they used this weapon daily.

Offline Rino

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2004, 02:01:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zanth
About the only "big gun" WWII plane I can think of is the B25-H


     I have a print of Me-410s with a 50mm AT gun in a gondola
under the belly.  Also the infamous Mosquito Tse-Tse model
mounted a 57mm gun.

     Then there was that 262 "rhino" variant, but that was just
silly :)
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Offline Krusty

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2004, 03:08:37 PM »
There was also the IJA twin engine scout plane that got an odd caliber (47mm? Not sure) big cannon for bomber interception.

Not 100mm+, but still pretty big.

EDIT: I'd rather see the 190 with the rutsatz of a pod with 2x20mm under each wing (4x20mm in pods), still has its inboard cannon (now 6x20mm) and also has the 13mm MGs (now 6x20mm & 2x13mm).

Imagine that firepower. NOBODY would be safe in a bomber, anywhere!

Hell, it could probably do a lot of damage in ground attack as well. Take out GVs in single bursts :lol

Would be a hoot.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2004, 03:18:35 PM by Krusty »

Offline HoHun

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 04:26:19 PM »
Hi Tony,

>This was as fruitless as all of the others."

Well, the Jägerfaust at least was successful in combat when it was used by Me 163 pilot to kill a B-17. As far as I know, this was the only operational sortie with the Jägerfaust, but it proved the concept.

(Ethell/Price, "Die deutschen Düsenflugzeuge im Kampfeinsatz")

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Offline sullie363

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2004, 07:02:09 PM »
Gotta love the Me262 with the 50mm cannon out the nose.  It only stuck out 8 feet and required a counter weight in the tail.  I think we need that in the game.
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Offline Krusty

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2004, 10:39:14 PM »
I heard that the recoil from the 50mm was a terrible strain on the plane, and the flight characteristics were atrocious with it installed.