Author Topic: Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...  (Read 2267 times)

Offline deSelys

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« on: November 18, 2004, 03:57:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu in a locked thread
It really pains me to see young Euros being taught how the US was not a friend in WW2 until they were attacked themselves.

Wow what next? How bad can you make the US seem?

Question for you bright young guys. Why was the US attacked in the first place? I mean why shake the hornets nest if they are content to sit on the sidelines?

Why did the U-boat fleet redeploy after Pearl Harbour and sink hundreds of thousands of tons of US flagged shipping if Hitler had such a good thing going?

I am amazed at how stupid some people here are. And scared that they are living where this was was fought and they no so little about it.


What amazes me is how you can reach those conclusions if you've completely read the posts. So I'll ask you to read the thread again without going overly emotional.

What I mean is that bashing France for standing (together with UK) in front of Germany while the rest of the world was watching (or even worse looking elsewhere like my country did) is just plain wrong. The USA brought an uncomparable help  to end WWII, yes. But at the beginning, with the exception of some courageous individuals *, they didn't do much.

Personally I'm not blaming anyone for this. Like you said, it was Europe's mess and the US were nowhere morally obliged to intervene. But making fun of a country (and mostly of people) who tried to stop a dangerous opponent is beyond comprehension.

Finally, negating the fact that a not negligible fraction of your population was supporting the nazis is revisionism of your own history. Those people were  never extremely vocal nor explicit, and they went completely silent after Pearl Harbour, but they had some influence in the first months of the war.

* and please don't mix people (for whom I have the utmost respect) like the pilots of the Eaqle Squadron with the Flying Tigers: the first group came to help England while the country was facing a grim future and, as W. Churchill said, had nothing to offer but blood, sweat and tears.
The second group was made of military pilots (they were certain to be reenlisted at the end of their term in the AVG) who volunteered for a risky but extremely well paid job.


And btw Skuzzy, the other thread degenerated right at the beginning when some individuals couldn't refrain from cheap humor although the original poster had explicitly asked not to bash.
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VWE

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2004, 03:59:23 PM »
[SIZE=9]IN[/SIZE]credible! :D

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2004, 04:05:15 PM »
INdispicable


:rofl

Offline slimm50

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2004, 04:24:33 PM »
INescapably improper.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 04:26:49 PM by slimm50 »

Offline Habu

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2004, 05:05:27 PM »
W. L. Mackenzie King Declares War

Below is an extract from a speech given by Canadian Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King in the House of Commons, in September, 1939.


For months, indeed for years, the shadow of impending conflict in Europe has been ever present. Through these troubled years, no stone has been left unturned, no road unexplored in the patient search for peace. Unhappily for the world, Herr Hitler and the nazi regime in Germany have persisted in their attempt to extend their control over other peoples and countries, and to pursue their aggressive designs in wanton disregard of all treaty obligations, and peaceful methods of adjusting international disputes. They have had to resort increasingly to agencies of deception, terrorism and violence. It is this reliance upon force, this lust for conquest, this determination to dominate throughout the world, which is the real cause of the war that to-day threatens the freedom of mankind.
This morning, the king, speaking to his peoples at home and across the seas, appealed to all, to make their own, the cause of freedom, which Britain again has taken up. Canada has already answered that call. On Friday last, the government, speaking on behalf of the Canadian people, announced that in the event of the United Kingdom becoming engaged in war in the effort to resist aggression, they would, as soon as parliament meets, seek its authority for effective cooperation by Canada at the side of Britain.

In what manner and to what extent Canada may most effectively be able to co-operate in the common cause is as I have stated, something which parliament itself will decide. All I need to add at the moment is that Canada, as a free nation of the British Commonwealth, is bringing her cooperation voluntarily. Our effort will be voluntary.

The people of Canada will, I know, face the days of stress and strain which lie ahead with calm and resolute courage. There is no home in Canada, no family, and no individual whose fortunes and freedom are not bound up in the present struggle. I appeal to my fellow Canadians to unite in a national effort to save from destruction all that makes life itself worth living, and to preserve for future generations those liberties and institutions which others have bequeathed to us.

--William Lyon Mackenzie King,
Prime Minister of Canada, September, 1939

VWE

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2004, 05:14:39 PM »
INconceivable!

Offline Habu

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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2004, 05:16:20 PM »
Royal Canadian Navy (RCN)

The Royal Canadian Navy started the war with 13 vessels, of which 6 were destroyers, and 3,500 personnel, and ended it with the third largest navy in the world with 373 fighting ships and over 110,000 members, all of whom were volunteers.
Escort of merchant ship convoys was the RCN's chief responsibility during the Battle. The first convoy sailed from Halifax on   September 16, 1939,  escorted by the Canadian destroyer St. Laurent.
 
Approximately 2,000 members of the RCN died during the war, and 24 RCN vessels were sunk.

Canadian aircraft and ships, alone or in consort with other ships or aircraft, sank 50 U-boats.
Merchant Marine

I know it was hard for the European powers all alone there in September 39 fighting the axis.

Offline deSelys

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2004, 05:22:03 PM »
Habu, have I ever said something about Canada? I certainly don't discuss those facts.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2004, 05:42:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by deSelys
The USA brought an uncomparable help  to end WWII, yes. But at the beginning, with the exception of some courageous individuals *, they didn't do much.


In the beginning we didnt do much because even if the public  would have supported it we quite simple were nowhere near ready or able to do much other then what we did.

Our Armed forces were at a pitiful level.
Even going so far as having to train using sticks for machine guns and Trucks as make beleive tanks.

In between wars Patton himself was taking money out of his own pocket to get spare parts from Sears & Roebuck

What we needed was time to rebuild which Roosevelt wisely did.
But it takes time to retool to make machines of war.
Time to train troops and get and put together the logistics needed to place a force in the feild.

In the meantime its safe to say we did all we could
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Offline straffo

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2004, 05:44:33 PM »
Good post DREDIOCK.

Offline Habu

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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2004, 05:58:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by deSelys
Habu, have I ever said something about Canada? I certainly don't discuss those facts.


You said "What I mean is that bashing France for standing (together with UK) in front of Germany while the rest of the world was watching"

The rest of the world and specifically Canada was hardly watching.

Offline deSelys

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2004, 06:08:31 PM »
Agreed Drediock.

How can we blame the generation who fought in the trenches during WWI for the bad preparation of the french, brit and, as you point out, US armies. There was a widespread feeling that WWI was a terrible mistake and that it could never happen again...

However the next disaster to come was already written in the Versailles Treaty: once defeated, the enemy shouldn't be humiliated. IMO the Nazi party wouldn't have had so much followers if Germany had been able to gain back its 'respectable nation' status after a few years.
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Offline deSelys

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2004, 06:10:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Habu
You said "What I mean is that bashing France for standing (together with UK) in front of Germany while the rest of the world was watching"

The rest of the world and specifically Canada was hardly watching.


I agree. Sorry for that.
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Offline BlueJ1

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2004, 06:33:15 PM »
Different people...different ideas...different opinions...pretty hard to change them no matter how hard one tries...
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Offline lasersailor184

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Ok Habu, this is worth risking the ban...
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2004, 07:05:45 PM »
Wow, this is completely amazing.


Never before in posting history on any forum have I seen every single post be completely FALSE, NOT TRUE, or just the stupidest things ever said.

Now, I don't mean one or two of the posts are bad.  I mean every time someone tried to post something constructive, they were completely wrong.  I'm astonished.
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