Civilians that were terrorized in Fallujah

[Chortle]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Yes the one that has total authority in Iraq right now until elections are held.  Yes the one that was put in place BY IRAQIS through representation.


Do you have a point to make or are you going to agree that the current Govt is the one that stoped the assault the last time.

My point is, the current Iraqi govt have no control over US or any coalition troops so your BURNING martyr post was WASTED on me.

[CAVY]

I remember about 25 years ago when an pansy named Jimmy carter was president of the USA....Iran began..what we now call today, terrorism against the USA , when they kidnapped 52 prisoners from the American Embassy in Tehran....Well, now we've come full circle...Under the Reagan and Bush years, Iran didn't blink an eye and kept themselves out of the limelight due to the consequences they new they would suffer, if they attempted to cause any problems towards this country of its allies. But of course during the Clinton years they were able to go to their buddy North Korea and gain the technology to produce nuclear weapons..the same weapons that they are attempting to produce today....Oh!! and you may ask.... how did North Korea get the technology...I'll give you three choices please feel free to pick any one   CLINTON...GORE AND AUNT BEE HER SELF  MADELYN NOT SO BRIGHT.  Now we're stuck having to clean up another mess...Thank goodness it's george W. Bush at the helm and not....DONG-DO CHO.. himself JOHN KERRY

[CAVY]

Originally posted by CAVY
] sorry last was meant to be new thread

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by SLO
read up on your OIL reserve and maybe you will start seeing the big picture, never mind what your alphabet soup news station tell you...or your Prez.

Better Idea,

why dont you enlighten us instead.

Last I heard about our oil reserve OPEC was asking US to open it.

Maybe you know something we dont?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Chortle
My point is, the current Iraqi govt have no control over US or any coalition troops so your BURNING martyr post was WASTED on me.

That not entirely accurate

We didnt go into Fallujah when we originally wanted to because the Iraqi Gov didnt want us to.
Then we did go in when it said we should.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Dowding

So now that the nutcases in Fallujah are gone, does that mean every crappy town in the world where nutcases reign is to be attacked and taken over?

Nice exit strategy.

Hmmm now there is an idea with some merit.

what town was it you said you lived in again?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Chortle
My point is, the current Iraqi govt have no control over US or any coalition troops so your BURNING martyr post was WASTED on me.

WRONG!  We are there right now at THEIR request.  We are hitting Fallujah right now at THEIR request.  No they have no control over our troops but the interim Iraqi Govt runs Iraq rignt now.  NOT coalition forces.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by SLO
they don't care for the folks Bug, never doubt that, its them big oil fields they are interested in, no matter what these clowns think or tell you.

which is worst, Sunni or Chiites

Silly arguement.


And just what were the interests of those scamming the oil for food program about? I highly doubt they were after a better Masgouf recipe or a better price on Dates (Iraqis second largest export)

Now this is coming from someone (me) who has no problem going to war over oil. None whatsoever.

I doubt if it ever really came down to it many countries would.

Like it or not Oil is what makes the world go round these days and without it everything comes to a screeching halt no matter what country your from.
And I cant think of too many countries whose economies wouldn't collapse if their oil supplies were suddenly cut off.

Oil is easy enough to get without going to war over it to go to war over it. Not to mention cheaper
And if we wanted to take over a country for it oil there are plenty ALOT closer south of us we could do it to with relative ease. And I doubt the world would say or do much about it if we did.

IF anything this war in Iraq oil wise will benefit not just the USA but the rest of the oil consuming world as well.

But this wasn't about oil. This was about a regime that was going to have to be dealt with decisively sooner or later. One that has proven time and again to be a threat if not immediately to us directly certainly to ours and the worlds interests And t a threat that would only grow worse and more dangerous over time.
Sanctions long term werent going to work and as is obvious now they were outright falling apart. It was only a matter of time before they were completely ineffective.
 Iran now is on the verge of having Nukes. Would only have been a matter of time before Saddam had them too. Given the histories of these two nations it wouldn't have been a question of if they started lobbing these things back and forth at each other and the rest of the area. But when. And it isn't very hard guess as to which of the two would start lobbing them first

  But I truely beleive Bush and Blair also viewed him as the single largest threat.
After 9/11 I cant say I wouldnt either
  And Saddam wasnt the type of dictator anyone could afford to guess wrong on.

  I am sure had we not gone now. Later we would not only be regretting it but calling Bush and Blair idiots for not doing it.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SLO
read up on your OIL reserve and maybe you will start seeing the big picture, never mind what your alphabet soup news station tell you...or your Prez.

How about you take your head out of your own arse and read up about the US's SPR and learn a little bit more about the World Petroleum situation instead of continuing to make an bellybutton out of yourself.


FACTS about the US's Strategic Petroleum Reserve

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve is a U.S. Government complex of four sites created in deep underground salt caverns along the Texas and Louisiana Gulf Coast that hold emergency supplies of crude oil.

Current US SPR Inventory as of Nov. 19, 2004
271.1 bbls Sweet Crude
400.2 bbls sour Crude
671.3 Total SPR

Total storage Capacity
727 Million bbls

The SPR is now at its highest level and continues to grow as additional crude oil is received.

Note:
These figures do not include the Naval Petroleum Reserve nor does it include private domestic reserves which surpass the International Energy Agency's requirement of 90 days of import protection.

(All items were ripped and pasted for the use of the less articulate)
http://www.fe.doe.gov/programs/reserves/index.html

Oh wait, I get it, you are trying to say that Canada produces more oil than the US....

think again

TOP OIL PRODUCERS in millions bpd (as of 2003 totals)

1) Saudi Arabia 9.95
2) United States  8.84
3) Russia 8.44
4) Iran 3.87
5) Mexico 3.79
6) China 3.54
7) Norway 3.27
8) Canada 3.11
9) United Arab Emirates  2.66
10) Venezuela 2.58
11) United Kingdom 2.39
12) Kuwait 2.32
13) Nigeria 2.25


Wait, maybe you are trying to say that Canada is the largest exporter!

WRONG AGAIN

TOP World Exporters in millions of bpd (as of 2003 totals)
1) Saudi Arabia 8.38
2) Russia 5.81
3) Norway 3.02
4) Iran 2.48
5) United Arab Emirates  2.29
6) Venezuela 2.23
7) Kuwait 2.00
8) Nigeria 1.93
9) Mexico 1.74
10) Algeria 1.64
11) Libya 1.25

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/topworldtables1_2.html

So, if by your own statement you are trying to imply the US is trying to bolster it's reserves from Iraq, you are in fact wrong.  We are fast approaching our maximum storage capacity.  So, are you trying to say that we are relying on Canada for our reserves?  Are you gonna come into Alasaka and cut our pipe line?  Please by all means inform us Slo.  Oh wait, maybe you are trying to say that our oil reserves are in Canada?  Well, wtf are those 4 facilities in the salt domes in Texas and Louisiana for then?

Please Slo, by all means astonish us some more with your feigned air of superioty... (insert throwing emotiocon here)

[1K0N]

Slo been pwned!

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Silly arguement.
Oil is easy enough to get without going to war over it to go to war over it. Not to mention cheaper
And if we wanted to take over a country for it oil there are plenty ALOT closer south of us we could do it to with relative ease. And I doubt the world would say or do much about it if we did.

At the moment yes and it's not as silly argument as it appears to be. We consume close to 19 millions barrels per day and produce less than 9 million. The rest is imported.

If these numbers remain stable (production/consumption/oil imports), our domestic reserves will be out in about 6 years, lets say 10 (with probable but not proven extra reserves).

If world consumption remains at current levels, we (world) got enough oil for about 35-40 years only. (Even if we find 100% more oil, it's not enough to bring us into 22nd century)

Iraq has proven reserves of about 115 billion barrels, which makes about 15 years of US consumption.

Since the production is maxed out (only Saudis have capacity of increasing the production for about 1-2 millions barrels per day), with consumption being about equal to production, every little disturbance can be of catastrophic proportion to our (and world's) economy.

With securing the Iraqi oil and expansion of production (has to be at least 5 million barrels per day), US would have gained capability of controling the oil prices (similar to Saudis now) and secured future for decades to come.

As we are already there it would be big mistake not to grab Iraqi oil.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
At the moment yes and it's not as silly argument as it appears to be. We consume close to 19 millions barrels per day and produce less than 9 million. The rest is imported.

If these numbers remain stable (production/consumption/oil imports), our domestic reserves will be out in about 6 years, lets say 10 (with probable but not proven extra reserves).

If world consumption remains at current levels, we (world) got enough oil for about 35-40 years only. (Even if we find 100% more oil, it's not enough to bring us into 22nd century)

Iraq has proven reserves of about 115 billion barrels, which makes about 15 years of US consumption.

Since the production is maxed out (only Saudis have capacity of increasing the production for about 1-2 millions barrels per day), with consumption being about equal to production, every little disturbance can be of catastrophic proportion to our (and world's) economy.

With securing the Iraqi oil and expansion of production (has to be at least 5 million barrels per day), US would have gained capability of controling the oil prices (similar to Saudis now) and secured future for decades to come.

As we are already there it would be big mistake not to grab Iraqi oil.

Good points.
And Im not dissagreeing with you

Not meaning to sound sacastic but
  I was under the impression that Saudi production was already at Max capacity. Least thats what I think I remember hearing.
Doesnt OPEC and not the saudies alone set oil prices?
  And although the material I was able to find is dated by a few years It is/was my understanding that while USA makes up 75% of SA's oil buisness we actually only get a little over 20% of our oil from the mideast

All that aside
 But what is the likelyhood we would keep it all for ourselves?

Probably and unfortunately we wont.
What we will do is get a western friendly government in there which in the end is only going to benifit everyone. Including the three stooges.

We probably SHOULD keep it all for ourselves.
but we wont

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
we actually only get a little over 20% of our oil from the mideast

I think it's even less than that, more like 15% (of our total consumption), but take 15% away from market, without being able to replace it with other sources and disaster would be here.

Also, 65% of world's proven oil reserves are in middle east (almost half of that in SA) and they will be of enormous importance to us in next decade or two.

OPEC quotas are based on the reserves of each member, therefore the biggest leverage is again at SA. It's true that OPEC controls the prices, but SA controls the OPEC.

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
All that aside
 But what is the likelyhood we would keep it all for ourselves?

When I've mentioned "control" I meant more with new contracts rather than with military occupation. All we need is to finish job there and get sort of "preferred customer" status. Something more in direction of guaranteed quantities and prices.

We carry most of the costs, so why not most of the benefits?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by 2bighorn


 When I've mentioned "control" I meant more with new contracts rather than with military occupation. All we need is to finish job there and get sort of "preferred customer" status. Something more in direction of guaranteed quantities and prices.

We carry most of the costs, so why not most of the benefits?

though I still do not beleive that was our ultimate reason for going in
I would tend to agree.

and in the end isnt that what our "allies" are so upset over?
That we are now in that position and they are not?
Im not talking about your average joe blow walking down the street, I mean their governments.

I seem to remember hearing well before anyone decided to go in that Saddam was offering the officials of these countries FREE drilling rights and other lucerative deals.

[eskimo2]

Ripsnort,

Do you buy replacement Ctrl keys every couple of months, or just replace the entire board?

eskimo