Questions on rudder usage

[StarOfAfrica2]

Looking for some advice on how you guys use your rudders to help you in combat.  

At merge?  Reversing?  In a stall fight?  Whenever.  I want to improve my game, and this seems like one of the biggest pieces I havent quite put together completely with the rest.  Sometimes it feels so natural, and other times its like I'm fighting what the plane wants to do.  Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

SA2

[xHaMmeRx]

Main thing I get from rudders is an increase in roll rate, especially at high speeds in planes that tend to get heavy. I also try to use them to nudge my firing solution, but tend to be bouncy when I do that. They are also good brakes if you are trying to bleed some E while fast.

That's my 1 cent...not enough for 2

[Clifra Jones]

I am in no way an experts but from what I do understand when you bank your plane for a turn the difference in lift between the lower and upper wing will tend to push your nose in the opposite direction of the turn (skidding) and you use the rudder to swing the tail up and bring the nose down thus coordinating the turn.

For me, how this is put into practice in combat is all a matter of practice and trail and error. (error usually means death)

I've read about using the tactic at the merge of stomping on the rudder to skid past your opponent firing your guns as you cross. I've never really been able to make this work. As hammer says it's hard to control and your nose tends to bounce around.

I've used the rudder to make a hard turn. You hit the right rudder, skid  right, do a snap quarter roll and pull. I screw this up at least half the time and end up spinning.

I also use hard rudder in a high wing over move. Again, practice and experience will tell you how much is enough and how much is either to much or not enough.

[FTJR]

Like Hammer, I use it to assist rolling at high speeds.

In addition I use it when spiralling up with a couple bad guys following me up, as the speed decreases I use rudder to keep the nose above the horizon to keep it climbing. Until, hopefully, its time to fall upon those below I reverse the rudder to get the nose down and speed up to controlable level and pointed at the enemy.

[Murdr]

When I changed from twisty stick rudder to pedal rudder, and hadnt gotten used to using my feet, I found out I use a little rudder ALOT to line up shots.  I also use them as Hammer discribed.  Plus I use a little counter rudder in low speed fights, and often to guide my stall on top of a rope with rudder.

[TequilaChaser]

if you are like me, when spiral climbing you will being using the rudder to turn left ( left rudder ) and using the ailerons opposite when slow,
or other direction spiral climbing right use right rudder to turn plane and use opposite aileron ( pushing stick left ) to balance the slow fight.......this is how I do my spiral climbs when bleeding the E from my opponents.... or you can be turning with the alierons/lift vector and using opposite rudder of turn direction

these are 2 different ways I might apply rudder while doing my spiral climbs when bleeding the E from my opponents....


I will use rudder to assist my roll rate in scissor maneuvers   ( horizontal(flat) & rolling )

use rudder when slow to assist in turns for a quicker reversal, rudder with direction of turn

also use slamming of the rudder in snap rolls, and when doing hi yoyo's and at top of immel's or hanging on prop type straight vertical climb

use rudder to shed E ( speed when coming into fast but let go right before lining up so I have a clean straight shot ( so rudder is not skidding me )

then all the other use of rudders ( light to heavy ) in different turing sitiations ( <---did that sound like George W? )

[humble]

Think most of it's been covered.....from my view I'll use as follows.

1) "coordinated" turn. You retain max energy with the ball "centered"...I'll fuss with this if I'm in lag on a con...otherwise I leave it be....

2) Turning in the vertical...109 and Hog are great with this...you actually use your rudder to turn in the vertical...both in rev and in a dive coming out of reverse

3) Air brakes Levi (was DMF back then) used to beat on me in TA all the time when I was a trainer...he could just suck the E out of his spitty at will on merge

4)driving to "the elbow"...you can go a bit higher than you'd think on high yoyo's especially in hog/109 then use roll and rudder to "snap" the nose back down and ahead of turning con...lot of times he'll see you "go up" and ease of to begin to gain back some E...you can bring nose down and around very fast...key is get on sweet spot...not to slow to mush but not so fast your working aginst yourself.

"OH $#!^"....when you look back and see somebody in red ~600 out you can actually "skid" your plane now....before you'd still get hit due to the "hit bubble"....here your plane is crabbing at 45 degrees...if you keep it level you create an "odd" site picture. Normally he's "bore sited" so he adjusts his aim...now you barrel roll him...

[StarOfAfrica2]

I already use much of what has been described.  Some of it comes naturally to anyone who has any experience at all, some of it is not so intuitive.  And of course, different planes require different technique.  Your last point is interesting Humble.  I read about this once while reading Bio's of some of the German pilots, and one described just such a maneuver.  He said he would push slowly on the rudder to the right, using the stick to keep the plane level.  This would throw the aim of the attacking plane off, and make him try to constantly adjust.  Then when the American plane would overshoot, he would snap the rudder to the left and roll out into a dive or split-s.  I used to do this with good effect in AW, but noticed when I played AH1 that it didnt work so well and I gave it up.  Perhaps I'll practice the move a bit again if it works now.

One other thing I've noticed is in planes like the Ki-61, the P-51B and the C205, when moving fast and you want to bring the nose around quick without losing alot of speed, mashing down on the left rudder and just using the stick to keep you at about 45 degrees will skid you in what almost feels like a fishtail but more controlled.  Do it too slow and the nose will dive down and the plane will go into a spin.  Especially in the P-51B.  

Appreciate the posts.  I'm taking notes.  

[Ghosth]

As little as possible.

Rudder = vastly increased drag= losing E every time you touch it.

I will use it when

A I see him lining up on me in my up or up/forard view. To kick out of his shot steam.

B Someones coming up on my 6 & I want to Dump major E, as well as make myself a hard target.

C Sometimes in a hard turn fight on the deck you need a bit of rudder to hold your nose up, down, etc.

D When on approach to land, I tend to come in high & fast, cross control, nose up, bleed my speed, gear down, flaps down, then grease it down. Been killed too many times on short final.  If they are going to get me landing they are going to have to work for it.


Granted I do tend to fly a very energy concious fight. I'd rather wear him down for a bit rather than  converting directly to angles.

[Eagler]

to crab sideways and shoot