Author Topic: Iran and it's Nukes  (Read 1189 times)

Offline CAVY

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Iran and it's Nukes
« on: November 20, 2004, 09:51:18 AM »
I remember 25 years ago...when a pansy named Jimmy Carter was president of the USA...Iran began what we now call terrorism against the USA, when they kidnapped 52 american hostages from the embassy in Tehran.....Wel, now we've come full circle...During the Reagan and Bush years they kept themselves out of the limelight, due mainly to the consequences they would have suffered in the event they tried to cause problems for the USA or it's allies.....Now we are faced with the most disturbing threat from a rouge nation, that frankly makes me uncomfortable....Nuclear Weapons....During the Clinton years while he was busy doing things in the whitehouse that are deplorable..He goes and sends Aunt Bee Madelyn Albright to deal with the North Koreans..that eventually led to them gaining all of the technology for Nuclear weapons...and them distibuting such technology like Yankee yearbooks to any takers on the market.. Iran being one of them leading them to become A#1 threat to the US and its allies.. Thank God George W. Bush is at the helm and not DO CHO PHAN  John Kerry

Offline lasersailor184

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2004, 09:53:15 AM »
Yup.  *Takes a sip of beer*
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Offline Staga

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Re: Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2004, 10:35:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CAVY
Iran began what we now call terrorism against the USA, when they kidnapped 52 american hostages from the embassy in Tehran.....



How about adding the reasons which did lead to that hostage crisis?
Without knowing the backgrounds what happened in Iran you shouldn't make any conclusions.
Shah's actions, with aid from US, terrorized his own country and created the basis for "coup d'etat" and US hostages were just a tools in this overtake.

Basically you could say terrorism in Iran begun when Shah and US terrorized Iranian people first and couldn't handle the results of their own actions.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Re: Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2004, 10:55:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
How about adding the reasons which did lead to that hostage crisis?
Without knowing the backgrounds what happened in Iran you shouldn't make any conclusions.
Shah's actions, with aid from US, terrorized his own country and created the basis for "coup d'etat" and US hostages were just a tools in this overtake.

Basically you could say terrorism in Iran begun when Shah and US terrorized Iranian people first and couldn't handle the results of their own actions.


That's a pretty big load of manure there Staga. May be a while before you're free from the stench.
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Offline Torque

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Re: Re: Re: Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2004, 11:07:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
May be a while before you're free from the stench.


Oh the irony...

Offline CAVY

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Re: Re: Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2004, 11:12:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
How about adding the reasons which did lead to that hostage crisis?
Without knowing the backgrounds what happened in Iran you shouldn't make any conclusions.
Shah's actions, with aid from US, terrorized his own country and created the basis for "coup d'etat" and US hostages were just a tools in this overtake.

Basically you could say terrorism in Iran begun when Shah and US terrorized Iranian people first and couldn't handle the results of their own actions.


We're are you getting your history from???

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 11:27:30 AM »
Reza Pulavi was a mean sob, yes. SAVAK of course wasnt very nice. Yes the usa did protect the shah after his little medicalk trip. However I dont think it was terribly nice or smart of France to host and support khameni as they did either as he subjected the Iraians to just another type of terror as the revolution ran its course to clerical dictatorship....
« Last Edit: November 20, 2004, 11:30:53 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline WhiteHawk

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Re: Re: Re: Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2004, 11:52:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
That's a pretty big load of manure there Staga. May be a while before you're free from the stench.


Sorry Ak, you are wrong.  The shah of iran was an american puppet during the cold war era.  Iran, I suppose had some sort of strategic importance, possibly oil, possibly its locatin, or both.  The shah of iran maintained control over the vast number of differing religiuos clans, much the same way Saddam did in Iraq, and just the same way as the US is doing in Iraq now.  Brutal supression of those that do or will oppose the interests of the occupying forces.   The shah was hated by the majority of the muslim people in and out of iran, and Iran, was the first taste the muslims had of its forced exported 'democracy', and the US became the Devil tot he muslim people.
  Lets not dilute the issues here, the US has been looking to capture and control the muslims oil since about 1970.  They are doing it now.  It is deemed urgent by those that are running the show now, not necessarily Bush, but probably Cheney and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.  I believe that they believe they are doing what is best for national interest of the USA and maybe they are.  I dunno.   But the US military will be in the middle east until the oil bearing countries govt's are all friendly to the US interests. (until the terrorist are all dead).

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2004, 12:04:45 PM »
Putting the Shah in power was not democracy, he was a hereditary monarch. The situation was nothing like we are doing in Iraq where we want the people to vote and decide for themselves.  The only people we are by your words "brutally opressing" in Iraq are those who want to blow up and shoot up the polling places next year and kill the voters in order to stop the Iraqi people having a democracy... Your defense of these criminals as poor opressed freedom fighters is beyond ridiculous, its lunatic...

Offline Dowding

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2004, 12:12:27 PM »
People is this thread should google the following words: Mohammed Mossadegh 1953 CIA

Basically Britain and US overthrew the democratically elected Mossadegh (who had just nationalised the oil, funnily enough) and installed their dictator puppet, the Shah Reza Pahlavi.

So basically, if you're going to blame Iranian radicalism on anybody, it really is the US and UK.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2004, 12:29:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
People is this thread should google the following words: Mohammed Mossadegh 1953 CIA

Basically Britain and US overthrew the democratically elected Mossadegh (who had just nationalised the oil, funnily enough) and installed their dictator puppet, the Shah Reza Pahlavi.

So basically, if you're going to blame Iranian radicalism on anybody, it really is the US and UK.


True on most counts except that I say France did nobody a favor by providing khameni a safe and secure base so he could wait out the shas reign and assume power.  On that account France was a guilty of the current situation as anyone considering they sheltered the man who truly radicalized the otherwise reasonable revolution against the shah.  Basically what I have heard from several Irianian friends who were there before and during the revolution was that in the beggining of the revolution the situation was more free and many voices came out to express their positions openly for the first time in a long time. Howver khameni and his allies under his leadership started taking them out and banning them one by one until it was just another absolutist terror government with clerics at the top instead of the shah and the security forces.  So considering that one really cant give the French a pass on this one, they protected the man who made the Iran situation pracxtically as bad as before under the shah except that this new government now hated the west and caused global terrorism and regional instability.  If the accounts fromm y friends are accurate then this was not neccesarily a foregone conclusion at the start of the revoltion.

Offline babek-

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2004, 02:49:36 PM »
Its very easy to pick the embassy-hostage event out of the whole context for an example how barbaric and terroristic all iranians are.

But you have to see the whole history which led to this event.

During WW2 the neutral Iran has been invaded and occupied by soviets and british forces, because the Shah of Iran Reza Khan refused to join the allies and declare war to the German Reich.
The relationship between the German Reich and Iran were good - and was no reason to declare a war to this country.

After the allies invaded Iran, they deposed the Shah and replaced him with his weak son, Reza II, who became a puppet of the Allies.
Promptly Iran became a member of the Allies and declared war to Germany. Iran was used as a supply base for the Soviets.

After WW2 Iran became a friend of the USA - and in these first decade it was a real friendship.
The USA were a "new" nation in this area. Unlike nations like England, France or Russia there were no diplomatic damage done to Iran by the USA.
The USA helped Iran by forcing the USSR-occupation forces to leave iranian territory after WW2 and also they supported Iran when they attacked and destroyed the first Kurdish nation, which was built in the soviet occupation area - the Kurdish Republik of Mahabad.

The soviets didnt acted when imperial iranian troops marched to the capital of this kurdish country, arresting the whole kurdish government and executed them in public after a short military trial.

The USA and the americans who worked in Iran impressed the iranians with their way of life and their democracy.

And so many young intellectual iranians, who had visited european and american universities and adopted the US way of life were more than happy, when the Prime Minister of Iran, Mr. Mossadegh, managed to depose the Shah in an unbloody revolution and sent him to italian exile.

That was the time when Iran could have become the most important stabilizing factor in the region.
It was a chance to create a democratic Iran - and this democracy would have built not by foreigners, but the Iranians themself.

But this chance failed.
The british and the US intelligence service deposed Mossadegh and put again the Shah on "power".
The US command centre of this operation was the embassy of the USA in Teheran. (And also in 1979 the CIA command centre was in this embassy).

With US help the SAVAK became a monster. This secret police of the Shah killed in the years that followed the deposal of Mossadeh tenhousands of Iranians - year by year.
Many of them just dissappeared.

The lucky one, who had relatives in powerful positions, were able to flee from Iran.

But most of them became victims of the terror regime of the Shah.
The Shah himself was considered a puppet of the USA.

And so the hate started to grow. Also the democratic forces in Iran had severe losses, because their prominent people were killed by the SAVAK.

So the radical elements - those who always fought in terroristic ways - like the communist Tudeh-partymembers and the radical islamists survived, because they were "trained" in acting with the SAVAK.

This terror lasted decades. And finally in 1979 there came the bloody revolution in Iran.

It was a time of total madness, where most of the Iranians only had the wish to end the terror regime of the Shah.

They forced the Shah to leave Iran and Ajatollah Khomeini came back to Iran to build a new iran - the Islamic Republic.

And all the time the people feared that the same could happen what happened after Mossadegh deposed the Shah in the 50ties: That the USA could start an operation to depose Khomeini and bring the Shah back to power.
The US embassy was defined as the CIA-command centre - especially by the students of the Teheran universities, who finally attacked it and took the hostages.

Most of the people didnt knew that one terror regime - the one of the Shah - was finally replaced by another one - the one of the Mullahs.

Ayatollah Khomeini - although very charismatic - was in the middle of an innerpolitical fighting for the power of Iran.
And many people didnt see what a dangerous man he was. Not only the iranians, who were so glad that the terror-regime of the Shah had ended and wished that he could continue the work of Mossadeh.

Also President Carters advisors called Khomeini "a second Ghandi who shouldnt be stopped".

That this "Ghandi" would build the next terror regime, which was responsible for the death of a million iranians wasnt seen in these days.

In these days the Iranians wanted to create their own democratic country. Many political factions were struggling bitterly how the new Iran should look like.

The one with the most power was the group of the Khomeini followers, but there were also many other factions.

And then something happened which ended any discussions: The Arabs attacked and tried to invade iran.

Saddam - in these days a nice friend of the civilized western nations - started the Iran-Iraq-War which lasted 8 long years.

Many of you think that the iranians consider Israel as the biggest enemy of Iran, but its not Isral but the arabs.
The innerpolitical fightings stopped immedeately.

And so - ironicly  it was Saddam who gave with his attack against Iran Ayatollah Khomeini the whole solidarity of all iranian factions. He united all Iranians who had only the goal to kick the arabs out of Iran as their ancestors did centuries ago.

And so Khomeini could stabilize his terror-regime in Iran.

But today many thing in Iran have chanced. The mullahs were already loosing their power and democracy was growing again in Iran.

Then 9/11 happened and the stupid Axis-of-Evil Speach of Bush helped again the Mullahs to stabilize their power.

The mullahs know that they are loosing the inner political fightings against the iranian democratic powers - so they indeed need something or someone to help them.

I am totally convinced that the iranians will replace the mullahregime with a democratic system made by iranians within the next 5 years.

But if there is an attack against Iran by foreigners then we would have the same setback we had when England and the USA destroyed the democracy in Iran in the 50ties and replaced it by a terroristic regime.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2004, 05:01:45 PM »
Nice writeup babek, are you Iranian?

Offline CAVY

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2004, 05:10:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nice writeup babek, are you Iranian?



nice writing..to bad it makes no sence

Offline babek-

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Iran and it's Nukes
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2004, 05:14:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nice writeup babek, are you Iranian?


Yes - a part of my family (especially all of them who were officers in the imperial iranian army) had to leave Iran during the revolution.

So I live today in Germany.