Author Topic: 5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?  (Read 5320 times)

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2004, 08:11:55 AM »
Even a single shot rifle would have been capable of killing all those guys.   allmost any centerfire rifle you can name is more powerful than the 7.62 x 39 sks round but... it is still allmost twice as powerful as the most powerful handguns.   slightly less accurate than a lot of handguns at 100 yards.  Most bolt, pump or lever action guns can get off a lot of shots very quickly.  a good man with a single shot can get off dozens of shots a minute.

even a shotgun would have been just as deadly.

Nash is wrong... this wasn't a case of "living by the sword"  or a hunting accident.   least ways, no more than say..... a man who was rock climbing gets to the top and starts cutting all the ropes of the other climbers plunging them to their deaths because he was up there first or felt it was his rock.

The NRA promotes hunter and firearm safety and the fact that they are no longer allowed to do an effective job in schools and other places is probly the cause of a lot of trajedy.

lazs

Offline Ripsnort

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #106 on: November 23, 2004, 08:18:36 AM »
Oboe,
Minnesota needs to adopt the law that many states have regarding domestic dispute.  When police are called, they are REQUIRED to make an arrest of one or both parties involved, and the prosecuting attorney presses charges, otherwise women just take the abuse and don't do nothing about it.

Oboe, do you know where Forest Lake is? That's where I grew up, on a farm about 12 miles outside of town, until I was 18 and moved to WA state.

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #107 on: November 23, 2004, 08:27:08 AM »
oboe... if the guy was waving a gtun around and threatening peoples lives then he was commiting a gun crime in my opinion.   I would not need a gun to kill a woman as an example

I have often said tho that I do not believe that unsupervised children or insane people should be allowed to have guns.  About half of the insane mass murderers that do shootings do so with a legaly held firearm.   I would close this loophole.   I would also not allow crazy people to drive cars or own dangerous power tools.

in the case of immigration... it is often difficult to tell what is "insane" behavoir or just cultural.  

lazs

Offline Nash

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #108 on: November 23, 2004, 08:31:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
in the case of immigration... it is often difficult to tell what is "insane" behavoir or just cultural.


:rofl

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #109 on: November 23, 2004, 08:31:32 AM »
I guess what bothers me is that some will say that "since we weed out all the potentialy crazy people we need to remove everything from society that a crazy person might easily use to cause harm to others."

Some will say that it is a certain type of firearm that caused the trajedy...   Some will blame hunting... all these people will have an agenda that has nothing to do with the situation at hand.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #110 on: November 23, 2004, 08:35:11 AM »
nash... you would disagree?  you would find all cultural (except religion I presume) behavior to be considered sane in all other cultures?   circumcising women?   canibalism?   beating wives or killing them with impunity?   hunting?  worshipping cows?    slavery?  

lazs

Offline Nash

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #111 on: November 23, 2004, 08:47:35 AM »
I think that was just a really funny thing to say. I laughed... but don't have much time atm to figure why.

Offline oboe

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #112 on: November 23, 2004, 09:47:41 AM »
Rip- yep, I know Forest Lake - a beautiful area.   Was just there this summer for a parade my oldest son's band was marching in.   In college, I was crazy about Ann Sargent, a Landscape Architecture student and Forest Lake native I met at the U in '79 or so.   Lost track of her though, and I doubt she'd remember me.
I'm originally from S Minnesota, near the Iowa border.   Grew up in a small town but you're never far from agriculture down there.  
 
Vang had already been arrested for threatening is wife with a gun - if a conviction had resulted, would that have been enough to keep him from owning firearms and obtaining a Wisconsin hunting license?   I assume without a conviction, the arrest alone is nothing.

Laz- I agree with what you are saying and think your rock climbing example is an apt one.    I don't understand the relevance of your statement about being able to kill a woman without a gun, but assume it has something to do with the separation of guns from violence.    On that I would also probably agree with you, but I just wasn't able to follow the logic of your example.

I don't see how anyone can rationally place blame on the weapon (even if an SKS is construed as a high-powered assault-type rifle, as it is being reported in the press here) or the hunting culture.    Clearly this was a case of a person who 'snapped' into violent anti-social behavior, one who had given multiple indications previously that he could be a problem.    I do think it likely that the Hmong community will be scapegoated somewhat, and although it maybe unfair I welcome the scrutiny this may bring on the whole immigration issue, because there are alot of problems not being dealt with right now.

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #113 on: November 23, 2004, 10:14:56 AM »
oboe... my example with the woman is that you don't need a firearm to beat a woman to death if her death is what you desire... waving the gun around is even more bizzare imo.   The man using a firearm to threaten someone that would be helpless against hin in any case would indicate to me that he has a problem understanding firearms rights.

lazs

Offline Pongo

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #114 on: November 23, 2004, 12:31:06 PM »
from the same article.
"“I still don’t believe it,” the suspect’s brother, Sang Vang, said. “He is one of the nicest persons. ... Maybe something provoked him or something. He is a reasonable person.”

"
ya.. waving a gun at his wife. repeated domestic calls. reasonable.
So these guys are Loatians that got to imigrate becuase they fought beside the US in the 70s or something?

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2004, 01:37:17 PM »
pongo... in some cultures a reasonable and "nice" man is normal if he waves guns around and smacks his wife around all the time.

lazs

Offline dedalos

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #116 on: November 23, 2004, 01:46:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
You see it all too often these days, senseless acts of violence. Car cuts another off, someone dead, someone takes someone else's parking space, someone dead, someone looks at someone else the wrong way, someone dead, someone on someone else's tree stand, 5 dead.

It's like human life has no value anymore. . . . .
. . . .
I just don't get it.


You get it alright.  Human life has (never had) no value.  Its all about individuals and property.  In some countries more than others, but thats just due to sircumstances.  Give humans a chance and they will kill in an instant in the name of relegion, property, because they are better than others, because they are the right color, because 'they were following orders', because of anything really.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Curval

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2004, 02:08:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
pongo... in some cultures a reasonable and "nice" man is normal if he waves guns around and smacks his wife around all the time.

lazs


What about civil?  Are these same men considered "civil" to their women?
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline lazs2

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2004, 02:57:53 PM »
curval... as an individual and a member of my culture.... I would say no.   I do not wave guns at women nor do I hit them.  I don't believe that it is considered normal behavior in the U.S.

lazs

Offline Curval

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5 hunters murdered in northern Wisconsin?
« Reply #119 on: November 23, 2004, 03:07:02 PM »
Okay, fair enough...but your moral high ground disappears as soon as you start to suggest ending women's sufferage.  You do realise that right?
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain