Author Topic: Awesome Poem!!! (Read 1137 times)

Muckmaw1 · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:40:44 PM »

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Originally posted by straffo
I will appreciate, thanks.

It's a two way street, as I am sure you know.

straffo · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:45:21 PM »

I know, I'm perhaps guilty of America bashing but I don't remember having started this kind of thread in the past

Note that I don't pretend to be complety white nor innocent.

Furball · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:48:06 PM »

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Originally posted by straffo
Your previous post let think they had a choice, being soldier they had to follow their orders.

Later Toulon prooved Mers El Kebir was an "unnecessary necessity".

Yes, but someone had to make a decision what to do, individual sailors no, country yes - sorry that was what i was implying.

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Originally posted by straffo

Later Toulon prooved Mers El Kebir was an "unnecessary necessity".

B.S. That is coming from the defeated.

Britain's strongest asset, was, and always was the Royal Navy, if the French fleet had fallen into Nazi hands then we would have been in trouble.

As i said, its a shame it happened.

straffo · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:03:15 PM »

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Originally posted by Furball
B.S. That is coming from the defeated.

Britain's strongest asset, was, and always was the Royal Navy, if the French fleet had fallen into Nazi hands then we would have been in trouble.

As i said, its a shame it happened.

I'm not sure to really understand the part I bolded, not that I will have personnaly acted differently than Churchill at this point of the war.

I guess, I will have ended to the same conclusion as him.

I've found a nice article in the past about Mers El kebir ,you should read it IMO , the source look to be neutral enought (at least it won't hurt our respective national pride

)
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/merselkebir.aspx

Hawklore · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:10:00 PM »

I tried, you have your opinion, I have mine...

Furball · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:25:54 PM »

from that link

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In March of 1940 the French and British had concluded an agreement that neither would ever sign a separate peace treaty with the Nazis. Three months later Paris had fallen and a beleaguered Premier Paul Reynaud petitioned Churchill to be released from the obligation. Churchill responded in typical fashion. The French would be permitted to explore conditions for an armistice but only on condition that the French fleet set sail for British ports. It was the fourth largest fleet in the world and in German hands could wreak havoc on Allied shipping. He also set forth a proposal of “indissoluble union” between Great Britain and France.

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French Marine Minister Admiral Darlan had given Churchill his word that the French fleet would never be allowed to fall into the hands of the Nazis. But what neither knew at the time was that Hitler had no interest in acquiring it—only neutralizing it by scuttling or by internment for the duration in French ports “under German or Italian supervision”.

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The British High Command was very wary of the neutralization of the French fleet in ports of Unoccupied France, as some had proposed. They feared that the Germans might at some point be able to take possession by threatening to torch Paris or Marseille unless the fleet were handed over. After all, Hitler had already displayed far more grievous treachery than this.

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On July 3rd, Vice Admiral Sir James Somerville’s “Force H” stood off Mers-el-Kebir. It included the battleships RESOLUTION and VALIANT, the battle cruiser HOOD, the carrier ARK ROYAL, two cruisers and eleven destroyers. His orders were to give French Admiral Gensoul four choices. He could join the British fleet or sail to a British port and have his crews repatriated to Unoccupied France. He could sail to Martinique or the U.S. where his ships would be decommissioned. Or alternately, he could scuttle his ships where they lay anchored. If Gensoul refused all four options, the Royal Navy was simply ordered to destroy the French fleet.

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They negotiated for nearly two hours, but Gensoul was not optimistic. He had already ordered all ships to fire up their boilers in preparation for action. During these final talks, Gensoul showed Holland a copy of his orders from Admiral Darlan. They revealed that if any foreign power were to try to seize control of the French fleet they were to immediately set sail either for the United States or be scuttled. But in retrospect it is clear that Gensoul was merely trying to buy time to allow his ships to prepare for battle.

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In the final and most critical failure of communication, Gensoul failed to send Admiral Darlan the full text of the British terms, which would have permitted the French fleet to sail to the United States. It is doubtful that it would have made a difference. Gallic pride prevented Gensoul from any willingness to negotiate while under threat of British fire. And to make matters even worse, while negotiations were still underway, British Swordfish planes from the carrier ARK ROYAL were already dropping magnetic mines in an attempt to prevent the French fleet from leaving port.

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At 5:26 P.M. Somerville radioed Gensoul that if none of the British proposals were accepted within 15 minutes, he would be obliged to “sink your ships”. Both sides had boxed themselves into a corner from which there was no honorable retreat. It was one of the great naval tragedies of the Second World War.

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As Captain Holland was leaving the DUNQUERQUE he saluted the French tricolor smartly with tears in his eyes. As he boarded the boat for his return to the FOXHOUND he heard the call to battle stations sound over the fleet’s speakers. He said later that he couldn’t believe all this was happening.

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With tears in his eyes he spoke of the tragedy of his forces having to fire on their former allies. There were cheers on both benches, but some may have recalled how the whole affair might have been avoided by better communication and by just a little more trust and good will.

Yes it was a shame. But necessary for the Allies. There was no alternative left.

Just sucks that the politicians and commanders let it happen.

koda76 · « **Reply #51 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:26:54 PM »

Hey....saw a french rifle for sale on e-bay.......only been dropped once!

Hawklore · « **Reply #52 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:28:13 PM »

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Originally posted by koda76
Hey....saw a french rifle for sale on e-bay.......only been dropped once!

How original..

koda76 · « **Reply #53 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:31:51 PM »

quote:Originally posted by hawklore:
How original..

How original....

Furball · « **Reply #54 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:32:57 PM »

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Originally posted by Hawklore
How original..

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Originally posted by koda76

How original....

How original.......

Airhead · « **Reply #55 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:37:41 PM »

Mind you, I'm not doing any Japan-bashing, but since we're all talking about other countries today I thought I'd share this really awsome poem that kinda expresses how most Americans feel....

The Stores of Wakikii

Eleven thousand immigrants
On the beach at Wakikii,
Eleven thousand immigrants
And they all speak Japanese.

It's just a strip of dismal beach
They once bombed from the sky
They found out what they could not take
They most certainly could buy.

And now the stores of Wakikii
Are mostly owned by Asians
They claim it's cause they work hard
But I blame immigration.

Eleven thousand white people
Are signing up for welfare
Wakikii just ain't the same
The Japanese don't care.

It's clear they've finally conquered us
Without firing a shot
Once the domain of white people,
Wakikii has gone to pot.

So remember back to yesteryear
As you walk along the shore
Remember back to the olden days
When the whites owned all the stores.

Bodhi · « **Reply #56 on:** November 23, 2004, 03:43:37 PM »

only one peom per thread.... hijack in progress...

waaaahhhhh Skuzzy....

Crumpp · « **Reply #57 on:** November 23, 2004, 04:01:12 PM »

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de Lattre ,Juin or Leclerc

Yes I do know who they are, Straffo. Great Soldiers and France should be proud of them.

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But I've decided never again to insult France in some small effort to begin improving the situation.

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I know, I'm perhaps guilty of America bashing but I don't remember having started this kind of thread in the past

Personal relationships cement alliances. Guess many Americans are hurt that France acts less like a personal friend of the USA and more like a Government seeking to increase it's own influence in the world.

Crumpp

AKIron · « **Reply #58 on:** November 23, 2004, 04:03:03 PM »

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Originally posted by Staga
I really think US should get a divorce from the rest of the world, cut all the ties to the outside world and... errr... Hey you're already doing it

If we did where the hell would you go to post your *****ing and whining?

Staga · « **Reply #59 on:** November 23, 2004, 06:13:34 PM »

Don't worry AKIron; You're going to be my b1tch for a long time