Author Topic: Tree Top Defense....... (Read 873 times)

DoctorYO · « **on:** November 23, 2004, 10:18:15 AM »

Etheral trees must go.... In my limited amount of sorties this tour.. Ive had 2 out of 4 opponents use the tree defense when i saddle them..

Having been offline and in the training arena I too have noticed that I can fly thru the actual tops of the trees as there seems to be no collision model at the top of them.. (about halfway up seems to be the cutoff)

While this tactic of putting your aircraft thru trees is very effective in screwing your enemies gunnery/visability when they are in the saddle; its pretty gamey..

IRL pilots are tought to avoid trees and IMO aces high should be the same way.. With alittle practice you can see how someone could get good at the tree top defense as 50% of my enemies so far have used to delay (note delay) their death...

Another thing is that when in the tree it doesn't seem my gun rounds go thru the tree like the aircraft does (a couple of times i bursted thru trees on guesstimate at range 200 but to no avail....) gunnery went from 10% to 3% in one sortie ...

Please fix when you get a chance.. A tree is pretty tough on plane parts and this sim should reflect that before the whole community starts using this tactic..

DoctorYO

PS: Im ready to film the next time and have mapped it to my Joystick...So I'll get you the film that will show you first hand this foolishness...

humble · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:04:24 AM »

YO...you can "hit" the top of the tree...its the area between the "pancakes" that you seem to be able to fly thru....I've hit the trees more than once chasing a guy flying THRU them. Dont know if its a detail issue or luck but agree its gaming the game.

Karnak · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:05:48 AM »

Are you certain that is what they were doing on their FE?

I've never seen anybody use this tactic.

JB73 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:06:43 AM »

pure luck sometimes, combined with some skill....

some guys can fly inverted through a VH. i can't but some can.

i have accidently flown "between the pancakes" as you say, but intentionally i can not duplicate this manuever

humble · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:51:58 AM »

JB....I've got no problem with a guy flying "between" the trees...or thru them if its a duplicatable feat....I actually had a guy go thru the BH inverted on me in the MA last week....was laughing so hard I let him go with a <>....

But I cant even see the trees before I hit them...and as for detail they are "fuzzy" at best. Now if a guy with a maxed out system can see enough detail to fly thru a gap I dont even "see" I have an issue with that...

Karnak · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2004, 01:29:19 PM »

What I was trying to point out is that they may not be going through the trees at all where it counts, on their FE. Lag may be causing it to look like they are going through the trees on your FE.

DoctorYO · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:48:19 PM »

Look all I know was that me and another aircraft (friendly) were following this yak.. (mC0 or something like that..)

The yak would dive into the treedeck and pull lazy (3-4g) turns trying to build up speed against my ki for a getaway.. only problem was that a friendly la7 kept running him down everytime he was getting some seperation.. I got him when he ran out of trees to duck into but that was like after 10 circles of seeing him.. then him disappearing in the trees(icon is still visible but aircraft is obstructed..) over and over again..

He flew no less than 20 trees and was clearly using them for cover... no doubt about it... Ill have to get it on film so you see what im talking about its very frustrating...

I have now problem someone pushing the limits of the sim but after seeing what i did I wouldn't want the whole arena following suit when in the defensive.. its highly unrealistic when you consider whats happens to a car when it hits trees at a mere 50mph let alone a aluminum aircraft traveling at 200 mph...

No sane pilot would get his aircraft anywhere near trees but then again no sane pilot would try to force the headon as their primary acm opener either......

hope it get fixed.....

DoctorYO

Kweassa · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2004, 02:55:49 PM »

Need a film, Doc.

I doubt anyone else has ever seen some one dive so deep "into the trees" purposely to evade gunfire.

It's either the guy has found some way to abuse the system or you are having a glitch in visual representation of what is going on, and its pretty hard to believe what you are saying is really happening, with your word alone.

Especially when I've also had a lot of tree-top encounters and in none of the occasions was such problem ever duplicated on my behalf.

JB73 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2004, 04:26:25 PM »

humble i can barley see them too sometimes, mostly the floating pancakes above the trees.

thats what i am talking about too, between the floating pancake and the main canopy of the tree.

it is gamey IMHO.

bozon · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2004, 05:47:14 PM »

sound like slightly different plane location on different FE, but a film is needed. I've never seen this.

What bothers me about trees is that leaves stop bullets bombs and rockets when you attack GV's that are under trees.

Bozon

humble · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2004, 07:21:20 PM »

Clip is a bit long (7 min)...didnt edit it...so go to end unless you want to watch fight (205 vs Ki-84)....

http://www.azhacker.com/images/film135.ahf

Only thing that doesnt make sense is tree's are much much clearer on the clip than "in game"

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2004, 02:18:33 PM »

If I understand what HT and Pyro have said about the upcoming release of ver. 2.02, it should fix these problems by making trees placeable objects in the terrain editor. Which means you can destroy the trees again. I'm not sure on the visual end of it, but Pyro did say they were making alot of graphics fixes and upgrades, so maybe in addition to the trees becoming "editable" they will be "hittable" (as far as crashing into them) as well and stop the problem.

Tilt · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2004, 05:24:08 PM »

I do it all the time is there something wrong?

I have often put the old lavochkin below tree top level and down the gaps in the trees..attempting to weave below the cover........

It works and its fun............ I have collected many a proxy when some fool tries to follow instead of simply waiting for me to run out of forest.

I have to admit its more effective when more than one is on your 6...sometimes they are "racing" each other for the kill and so take chances..........

The top layer is soft but cutting thru it is very dicey as some trunks dont all touch the ground and a row of trunks can penetrate the top layer.

jpeg · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2004, 08:05:06 PM »

Tilt I do the exact same

I love getting to see 4 or 5 guys chasing me at tree top level and almost every time at least 1 ends up crashing, lol.

It's a great defense, I would hate to see it go.

DoctorYO · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2004, 10:52:37 AM »

if there is some clearing for you to do this i have no problem with it.. its the flying thru the branches that makes it highly unrealistic.. when birds can ruin your day in a aircraft think what a tree will do; even non dense branches will cut your aircraft in half 200mph.. mass * velocity = energy (dammage) a twig turns into a spear..

Good example is a hurricane/tornado.. tree branches at 125mph can impale you and kill you.. now factor 200mph.. good luck.... (go take your car at 70mph and drive it thru a bush and see what your get.. *** disclaimer try at your own risk.. DoctorYo is not reponsible for your stupidity or damages caused by such....)

pulling the "thru the hanger" tactic on trees i can bare but flying thru the tree canopy should go.. especially when bullets cant do the same...

The guy who was doing it to me was aiming for the trees not under them.. And note the exact tactic you describe as waiting for him to pop out I did and got the kill just he didn't pop out of the tree bed untill like 10 360's...

now if i was in enemy territory this could have been exploited (note exploited) until his buddies got involved.. not nice.. I just dont want to see the arena go to cheese with my limited flight time.. thats all... gamey enough with dive bombing bombers.. And note I play quake too.... so I have tolerance to such...

DoctorYo