Deer hunting killer is a "spiritual leader"

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by JoOwEn
Actually I can understand his mentality in all this. First time I shot an animal didnt think much of it. Then I shot some more and more and it was alot of fun. Then one day I actualy took a look at the animal I shot and felt remorse so I stopepd my rampage of neighbor hood animal shooting.  Now take a dear hunter into consideration. He hunts dear and keeps the head or will eat the meat. He will have to chopp it up and will eat it for dinner. From the perspective of the average city dweller, thats pretty unpleasant. So I can imagine that after killing animals for so many years and such that it can make you insensative towards life. Some people can kill dear and some can also kill dear and people. Its just the next step of insensativity towards life in general. We are all meat eaters but we are shielded from the gruesomness of the slaughter house by the meat industry. Beef is a burger not an animal. I think most people are clueless in the thoughts and physcology it takes to effortlessly take a life in modern society. This is not meant to be a new journal into physology or anything, just my opinion so dont take it too seriously.

  Don`t worry, we won`t take it too seriously. The first hint came in your spelling of deer. The second came in the rest of that load of horse manure.
  I do , however, think you should seek professional help immediately. The use of "dear" in this instance just has to hold some hidden, under the surface desire of yours.

[Otto]

Originally posted by JB73
kinda like Carl....

when he dies, on his deathbed, he will recieve total consciousness

[Maverick]

Originally posted by JB73
kinda like Carl....

when he dies, on his deathbed, he will recieve total consciousness

Hopefully this will be soon.

[opus]

One of the posts brought up a point of feeling remorse after killing an animal an looking at it. I'm a meat eater, yet I do love animals and expect I'd feel the same if I was one who had to kill them. How do hunters overcome this feeling? Does it ever bother you? Now I know there are many playful comebacks (like how could a rib roast bother you?), but I'm just wondering how a hunter deals with it. If I buy a pack of pork chops, it doesn't look like an animal, so denial is pretty easy. Still, unless I was starving, I don't think I could slaughter a pig once I looked at it living, or looked at its eyes. How does the hunter get over his empathy toward animals?

Dont take this as anti-sportsman or anti-hunting. I'm just curious as I've never done it, and wonder if its always easy.

[dfl8rms]

Opus,

As a hunter and former butcher in a meat shop, I don't feel remorse per se.  I respect the animal, (more so the wild ones like deer, elk, etc.) and enjoy the taking and butchering of them.  I think my comfort with this arises from the fact that I grew up on a farm where we either ate something we grew from a babe to eating age or we killed it (deer, fish, grouse) and cleaned it.

I get bothered when an animal suffers wether it is a poorly shot animal or an animal raised in a environment not suitable for it.

Don't know if I shed any light on your question.

[Sundowner]

"I learned a thang or two from 'Charlie' don't-cha know.."

"You better stay away from Copperhead Road"  
                  ..........................Ste ve Earl

[Tarmac]

If it's just his word againstheirs, then innocent until proven tugildty.

[Wolfala]

JB,

OT here - whats the obession with fat women who are also ugly?

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Tarmac
proven tugildty.

Down with tugildty!!!!!!    

[Dune]

Originally posted by dfl8rms
Opus,

As a hunter and former butcher in a meat shop, I don't feel remorse per se.  I respect the animal, (more so the wild ones like deer, elk, etc.) and enjoy the taking and butchering of them.  I think my comfort with this arises from the fact that I grew up on a farm where we either ate something we grew from a babe to eating age or we killed it (deer, fish, grouse) and cleaned it.

I get bothered when an animal suffers wether it is a poorly shot animal or an animal raised in a environment not suitable for it.

Don't know if I shed any light on your question.

Similar feelings.  As a kid I shot and killed a lot of animals.  Without thinking.  Some (like gophers) were pests, but most was just killing.  Now I look back and realize that if I'm not going to eat it or use the remains in some way (I suppose I could be making clothes or something out of them), I should leave it alone.  Now that's the route I take.

As said above, you should go to lengths to make sure there is no unneccesary suffering.  But, it's still an animal.  Sorry PETA, but it's not a person or companion.  To me, respecting the animal means killing it cleanly, eating what you kill, and not taking more than the enviorment will allow.  

I enjoy bird and big game hunting.  I also grew up on a farm.  To me, what you killed or raised to butcher tastes better than what you bought at the store.

[lazs2]

I don't particularly like harvesting or butchering anmimals anymore because I have grown soft and lazy.    I do eat meat tho and know where it comes from.  

If you eat meat and are afraid to see the process then you better get on your knees and kiss the privates of those who do the work instead of hypocritical and pointless moralizing.

lazs

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by opus
One of the posts brought up a point of feeling remorse after killing an animal an looking at it. I'm a meat eater, yet I do love animals and expect I'd feel the same if I was one who had to kill them. How do hunters overcome this feeling? Does it ever bother you? Now I know there are many playful comebacks (like how could a rib roast bother you?), but I'm just wondering how a hunter deals with it. If I buy a pack of pork chops, it doesn't look like an animal, so denial is pretty easy. Still, unless I was starving, I don't think I could slaughter a pig once I looked at it living, or looked at its eyes. How does the hunter get over his empathy toward animals?

Dont take this as anti-sportsman or anti-hunting. I'm just curious as I've never done it, and wonder if its always easy.

I suppose it's different for others.  I've known people who just loved to kill things.  didn't spend any more time around them than I had to, but I've known a few.

but speaking just for myself, it's not about losing the empathy.  I still can appreciate the beauty of the animal, feel remorse if I was sloppy and let it suffer more than necessary.

you just level with yourself on a few basic truths-  1.  you are a meat eater,  2. he's lower on the food-chain than you.

I simply see it as more honest and more honorable.  the kill, and ultimately dinner, are the natural conclusion to the hunt.  this is not a time for philosophy, you've tracked him, found him, set up the shot, time to stop thinking and finish the job.  it's what comes next, and as with most things in life it doesn't really make a damn how you feel about it, just get it done.  

I've hunted off & on for 30 years.  I still puke every time I open a body cavity.  I still feel like crap if a poorly placed shot leaves a wounded animal, taking a day or so to die while I follow it for what seems like forever.

I think it is much more honorable, and definitely more honest with yourself to do your own dirty-work.  I've also found that for the most part, people who take the life out of the meat themselves have a much greater respect for the animal and the meal.

I also think doing it yourself shows a level of respect for the animal.  similar to the feeling behind having to put a good dog down.  most people aren't going to find it joyful to put down a loyal dog, but it would be wrong to have someone else put down your dog for you.

one thing to consider.  if you take a guy who relies 100% on game for meat (not exactly common these days I know), and compare him to a guy who eats only out of the grocery store.  I'm sure you'll find that the hunter has a much clearer idea of how many animals have died in the name of filling his belly.

[cpxxx]

I notice he's described as Hmong from Laos. When I first saw his picture it occurred to me that he might be Hmong. Coincidentally I was re reading my copy of 'The Ravens' by Christopher Robbins which is a history of the FAC's who served in the CIA's secret war in Laos in the sixties.  The Hmong did most of the fighting on the American side and have suffered for it since, being heavily persecuted by the Communist government.   Apparently the Hmong are essentially one generation away from being stone age hill tribespeople.

I'm guessing, but he must have being involved in guerrlla warfare when he was in Laos. So veggie speculation as to the possibility that he became desensitised to killing by shooting deer is nonsense.  He must have killed men before probably in Laos and probably in battle.   How else could you explain the fact that all of the people he shot were armed and could have shot back.  He hunted and killed them like the pro he probably is. Taking the scope off his SKS is a clue there.  Somethng must have cracked in him in some way. There is a lot more to this than a simple dispute over a tree stand or racist remarks. If one of the hunters fired first that may have pushed him over the edge.  It's all speculation until we hear the facts.

We can anticipate this argument in his defence when it comes to court.  

The fate of the Hmong in general is a tragedy and probably those hunters are in fact another casualty of the war in Laos.

[JB73]

Originally posted by cpxxx
I'm guessing, but he must have being involved in guerrlla warfare when he was in Laos. So veggie speculation as to the possibility that he became desensitised to killing by shooting deer is nonsense.  He must have killed men before probably in Laos and probably in battle.   How else could you explain the fact that all of the people he shot were armed and could have shot back.  He hunted and killed them like the pro he probably is. Taking the scope off his SKS is a clue there.  Somethng must have cracked in him in some way. There is a lot more to this than a simple dispute over a tree stand or racist remarks. If one of the hunters fired first that may have pushed him over the edge.  It's all speculation until we hear the facts.

We can anticipate this argument in his defence when it comes to court.  

The fate of the Hmong in general is a tragedy and probably those hunters are in fact another casualty of the war in Laos.

the people he killed were all unarmed except 1

thats right there was 1 gun in the whole group.



also he was in the US military, i forget which. he came here as a child i believe.

[VOR]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/nov04/statement112304edits01.pdf


For those interested in reading the report.

Edit: I found something curious about the weapon being described as a "Saiga SKS". I suppose a Saiga rifle could be confused for an SKS, but I'd think an official police report would get the facts straight. (Not that it really matters)