Author Topic: 190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun  (Read 2764 times)

Offline Pongo

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2004, 03:55:12 PM »
Not close to what the SU8 would do. Its got real armour and a battery of 4 45mm belt fed cannons mounted arround the center line...
Even if you loaded 2 with AP and 2 with HE and had seperate triggers for them..it would absolutly rock.
I just cant believe that Tony didnt mention it in his article. Its the best concept for a heavy gun ground attack plane to come out of the second world war.

Offline gear

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2004, 06:05:49 PM »
Sukhoi Su-8
(Russia)
Twin-engined, long-range attack aircraft. The Su-8 was designed to support the army during offensives, and to combine heavy armament with a good performance. It had a very slim fuselage and was powered by M-71 radials. After the demise of the M-71 a version with AM-42 engines was designed, but not built. Operational needs for the Su-8 had disappeared.
Type: Su-8
Function: attack
Year: 1943 Crew: 2 Engines: 2 * 1490kW M-71
Wing Span: 20.50m Length: 13.58m Height: 5.09m Wing Area: 60.0m2
Empty Weight: 9168kg Max.Weight:
Speed: 552km/h at 4600m Ceiling: 9000m Range:
Armament: 2*g45mm 5*mg7.62mm 1*mg12.7mm


The offensive armament was, of course, the aircraft's real reason for being, and here the design team excelled themselves. The main armament consisted of a battery of heavy cannon sized to defeat even the heavy Tiger and Panther tanks. The guns were housed in a broad, shallow pod under the center fuselage. The first prototype had four 37-mm 11P-37 (later NS-37) automatic cannon, each loaded with 50-round clips by the air gunner. Each gun could fire 735-gram shells at about 250 shots/min with a muzzle velocity of 900 meters/sec. They would penetrate 40-mm armor at any angle up to 45 degrees. In the second prototype, these weapons were supplanted by a quartet of 45-mm OKB-16-45 (later NS-45) automatic antitank guns, essentially the same weapon with a larger bore and shorter barrel. These formidable weapons fired 1065-gram shells at the same rate with a muzzle velocity of 850 meters/sec, and could guarantee penetration of 58-mm armor. These, too, were clip-fed in the prototype. But the OKB-16 design team already had a fully automatic feed system in test. On their own, these guns fired approximately 1 ton/min, the heaviest weight of fire achieved by any wartime aircraft. For sighting and for attacks on soft targets, eight 7.62-mm ShKAS machine guns were mounted in the wings immediately outboard of the propellers, each gun being capable of rates of fire between 1800 and 2700 rounds/min. In addition, four 150-kg FAB150 general-purpose bombs could be carried in bays between the engines and the wing guns.

Many, perhaps most, heavily armored attack aircraft have emerged overweight, underpowered, and ill-handling. Even the successful ones were often tolerated for their utilitarian virtues rather than loved for their flying qualities. But the Su-8 was reportedly an excellent airplane, with first-rate handling at all design weights. Maximum speed was 311 mph at sea level, 342 mph at 15,000 ft. It could takeoff in 1300 ft and land in 1528 ft at a modest 87 mph. It could climb to 10,000 ft in 7.3 min and to 16,000 ft in 9 min. Service ceiling was 28,000 ft. Range with maximum weapons load was 373 miles, 932 miles without the bombs.

By the time the Su-8 appeared, however, its time was already past, in the eyes of officialdom at least. Russia was clearly winning the war, and anything that might interfere with the production of the existing, war-winning aircraft types was frowned upon. No doubt this was the right decision, given the outcome. But there can also be little doubt that many a Soviet soldier would have been glad of the assistance of this last and greatest of the Shturmoviks, especially during the last, frantic dash for Berlin, when Soviet spearheads often faced elephantine heavy tanks 150 miles or more from the nearest air support.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 06:09:47 PM by gear »

Offline Leayme

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2004, 08:58:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
Bah!  Using the current damage model, I'll simply haul out
my trusty Luger and plink your "Deathstar's" pilot :lol


You know what? You're probably absolutely correct:D

Offline bunch

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2004, 12:07:04 AM »
If you were looking through the Soviet/Russian section of the MAD  you probably saw this also:
------------
 Grigorovich IP-4
(Russia)
Monoplane fighter, a smaller derivative of the IP-1, armed with four recoilless 45mm cannon. One built, a second was abandoned uncompleted.

Type: IP-4
Function: fighter
Year: 1934 Crew: 1 Engines: 1 * 640hp Wright Cyclone 9
Wing Span: 9.60m Length: 7.08m Height: Wing Area: 16.36m2
Empty Weight: 1080kg Max.Weight:
Speed: 435km/h Ceiling: 8300m Range: 830km
Armament: 4*g45mm 2*mg7.62mm
-------------

4*45mm is a hell of an armament package for 1934, especially considering most fighters were given the WW1 standard  2*0.303 in those days

Offline Rasker

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2004, 01:51:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
Wasn't there a Ju-88 with something like a 300 mm strapped on the bottom, or something like that?



There was a late Ju88 prototype with an 11" battlecruiser gun installed for use on capital ships, the blast was too big for the plane tho.  Tony Williams and I talked about it in another thread.  Search under Ju88 and Munchausen, that might work.

Offline Tony Williams

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2004, 02:26:09 AM »
From 'Flying Guns – World War 2: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45':

"Largest of all the RCLs considered for firing from aircraft was a German weapon, the Rheinmetall G104, a 36,5 cm calibre gun designed to fire a 635 kg shell at 315 m/sec, the recoil being balanced by the expulsion of the equally heavy cartridge case to the rear. The intention was to hang the four tonne gun under a bomber and fire it in a steep dive, battleships probably being the main intended target. However, ground firing tests demonstrated that the muzzle and venturi blasts would be so severe that the aircraft would be unable to survive them, so the idea was abandoned."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

Offline spitfiremkv

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2004, 12:41:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
Gotta love the Me262 with the 50mm cannon out the nose.  It only stuck out 8 feet and required a counter weight in the tail.  I think we need that in the game.



get FB AEP
I haven't managed to hit any B17s with it l  though :(

Offline Jester

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2004, 01:16:28 PM »
Japanese KI-109 "PEGGY" carried a 75mm cannon to hunt B-29's with and actually saw some combat I believe


As for the FW-190F - IMO the HE and AP versions of the PANZERBLITZ rockets would be MUCH more usefull than the 77mm "coconut thrower".
Lt. JESTER
VF-10 "GRIM REAPERS"

WEBSITE:  www.VF10.org

Offline Rasker

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190 F-8 with 77mm Anti Tank gun
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2004, 02:08:55 PM »
Ya, I'd be happy if they just slap on the 82mm Russian rocket from the IL2 as an interim measure for the 190-F