Author Topic: What is the purpose of current heavy ack?  (Read 948 times)

Offline Waffle

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2004, 03:39:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
IMO it is not a matter of real or unreal heavy ack effectiveness against fighters. The problem is that this is a game, and heavy ack ruins the fun of players and do not add anything else to the game.

Currently all the fights are always near some place with heavy ack, it is very rare to find a fight in the middle of nothing.


Uh..88mm flak burst are over 3 places in fairly heavy concentration - Task Groups, Strats and ports. It's  light over most feilds. (1-2) emplacements)

I  would dare to say the majority of fights DON'T take place over Strat and Ports. - If you're near a Task Group or Strat area.... get out of the area. I would imagine Strat and Task groups equate to maybe 3% of total land area on a map, if that.

Offline MANDO

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2004, 04:00:11 PM »
Heavy ack is present at most (all?) airfields also.

Offline Murdr

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2004, 04:30:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Uh..88mm flak burst are over 3 places in fairly heavy concentration - Task Groups, Strats and ports. It's  light over most feilds. (1-2) emplacements)

I  would dare to say the majority of fights DON'T take place over Strat and Ports. - If you're near a Task Group or Strat area.... get out of the area. I would imagine Strat and Task groups equate to maybe 3% of total land area on a map, if that.

Of those 2 instances I mentioned earlier 1 was 20k over a large nme field fighting with 2 nme, and the other was over my own field in range of CV ack fighting with an nme fighter.

Offline Waffle

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2004, 04:30:58 PM »
was talking about concentration of ack.

Offline Murdr

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2004, 04:37:18 PM »
Im not concerned with concentration.  There may be a valid place for flack bursts in the game, but it certianly isnt in the middle of a fight with planes that are friendly to the 88 battery.

Offline Waffle

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2004, 04:49:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
Im not concerned with concentration.  There may be a valid place for flack bursts in the game, but it certianly isnt in the middle of a fight with planes that are friendly to the 88 battery.


Simple solution - if you want to fight over an nme feild - take out the ack first.

btw - I've been hit by friendly aa before.

Offline ccvi

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2004, 05:05:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure that I have killed more ack than ack has killed planes I was in. A new score category for killed acks and k/d ack vs. player commanded vehicle would be nice.

Offline CavemanJ

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2004, 05:27:09 PM »
In it's current form, the 88mm/5" flak bursts shouldn't even be here unless they are player manned.

IIRC, the current AI puffy ack is randomly generated around the target aircraft, which is why flying straight and level through it is the best course.. if you turn/change altitude you're more likely to run into a burst.  TOF isn't calculated, so changing heading and altitude to throw off the gunners don't work.

The most annoying part of it, imo, is the way it selects who to randomly generate the ack around.  I've flown over a carrier group, started getting the puffy ack, turned to get back outside the puffy ack range while other friendlies are headed into the carrier a few thousand feet below me, but I draw the puffy ack until I fly out of range.

Several threads about this already floating around here somewhere.

Offline Murdr

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2004, 06:03:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
Simple solution - if you want to fight over an nme feild - take out the ack first.

btw - I've been hit by friendly aa before.
"Simple" is about right considering the 2 specific scenerios I mentioned.

Offline Fariz

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2004, 06:35:44 PM »
I do not like them. Random kill = frustration, and this kind of frustration leads nowhere. When I am frustrated in a fighter combat, I can try to fly better, but nothing I do decrease chances of 88s to hit me. For future map designers, keep 88s at large fields, remove from small/med, a la AH1.

Offline Fariz

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2004, 06:42:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CavemanJ
In it's current form, the 88mm/5" flak bursts shouldn't even be here unless they are player manned.


Be careful with what you wish for (c). You probably never flew close to fleet with those guys sitting in the 5''s.

Please, delete your message asap, before HTC saw it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2004, 06:55:26 PM by Fariz »

Offline CavemanJ

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2004, 07:07:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fariz
Be careful with what you wish for (c). You probably never flew close to fleet with those guys sitting in the 5''s.

Please, delete your message asap, before HTC saw it.


I've been in close proximity to fleets with manned 5" guns.  Damned near impossible to get in with torpedoes on a Ju88 if they see your dot coming.

I've also manned the 5" guns.

I still say the AI puffy ack needs to be changed to player manned or yanked for the time being.

Offline Kweassa

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2004, 09:05:13 AM »
Quote
IMO it is not a matter of real or unreal heavy ack effectiveness against fighters. The problem is that this is a game, and heavy ack ruins the fun of players and do not add anything else to the game.

 Currently all the fights are always near some place with heavy ack, it is very rare to find a fight in the middle of nothing.


 Would it be less frustrating for you if flaks were removed from its normal positions, and then grouped and heavily concentrated near major strat./tact. facilities or important sky paths by the dozens, so the entire sky around that area is filled with explosions, and the chances of going through the skypath unscathed becomes incredibly smaller than what it is now?

 Or would it be less frustrating to stay as it is - a small but random chance of flak hits spread apart over the entire map?

 
Quote
Im not concerned with concentration. There may be a valid place for flack bursts in the game, but it certainly isnt in the middle of a fight with planes that are friendly to the 88 battery.


 So where would be a 'valid' place for  88mms then, when the whole MA revolves around capturing individual fields, which naturally makes the field itself the most important object on the map which require some kind of protection?

 Remove it and stock it away at the corners of the map, or circle them around the HQ where typical enemy presence would be like 2~3 planes during an interval of 3~4 hours?


 The frustration I can understand - nobody is a stranger to a clandestine meeting with the flak.

 However, what you are suggesting is to practically remove the 88mm presence altogether from the game, because a random event that might happen maybe once in a day, is so unbearably  frustrating for you.

 Frankly, you should feel lucky that the 88mms are nothing more than occasional frustrations in the game - since concentrated batteries of 88mm shells were clearly meant to do much more than frustrate someone occasionally.

  People can't stand randomness because they love to think everything is cause and effect - you have to do something wrong to die, and when you do nothing wrong you won't die.

 Except, the 88mms don't work that way - neither did they in real life, nor do they in the game, nor should they in the first place.

 I agree to some of the suggestions to make flak bursts something that makes sense - like non-line-of-sight flak fire that should be fixed.

 Reducing their effective range so that flak fire will have a limited altitude(maybe something like 18k) would also be a good idea.

 Having flak stop fire when friendly plane is nearby an enemy plane, would also be good.



 
 However, there is nothing wrong with randomness itself - especially when the probability itself is set so low that the flak has almost no tactical value in the game.

 If flak batteries would work the way it should - powerful concentration of explosions all around the sky - , now that, would be a gameplay threatening problem, since nobody would venture alone inside flak alley in the first place.

 The very fact that people venture within flak range and then go complain about it when actually gets hit by one -  itself means that the flak is basically insignificant in terms of gameplay in the MA.

 If an occasional accident or two is a gameplay killer I'd say we remove Fester or Shane or these kind of guys from the MA, because whenever I "randomly" meet them in the area where I'm operating out of, I tend to die.

Offline AKDogg

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2004, 11:27:22 AM »
The 88mm ack battery should be just like the Shore battery.  Will only fire if manned.  All other ack is fine.  There should be at least 2-3 88mm ack guns at all fields.  Personally, i think all ack regardless of there caliper should be able to be manned.
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Offline MANDO

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What is the purpose of current heavy ack?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2004, 01:39:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Or would it be less frustrating to stay as it is - a small but random chance of flak hits spread apart over the entire map?


Just take it out of the game, we dont need it.