rolling reversal

[Citabria]

try it sometime when you have determined that the bandit on your 6 has much more speed (yet you need speed also)

if you have determined that h is to fast to slow down do a large barrel roll as he gets to around 500 yards and keep nose pointed in same direction as his

if it works correctly you will be on his 6 with about 2-3 seconds of time to shoot him down before he is out of range

[Citabria]

the trick to this is keeping as much speed as you can without getting shot down knowing when to begin the maneuver and judging the enemies E accurately.

the more speed you can conserve the more time you have to shoot him down... in the most favorable scenarios you will be co e and on their 6

[GRUNHERZ]

This works great in 47, niki and chog because you can easily  spray them out to some 800yds!!

[Wotan]

works well in a5

[F4UDOA]

Even better roll into a split-S and when nme fly's past they tend to go virtical. When you see him break off roll upright and follow him through his loop. You should come out right on his 6. I learned this from Hblair, the hard way  

[Seeker]

Can any one define a rolling reversal? Citabria gives good tips on when and how to use it, but not what it actually is.....


F4DOA, it sounds very much as if what you're describing is a rolling scissors in the vertical plane, have I visualised this correctly?

[Citabria]

it is a big fat barrel roll, sometimes a few of them

it takes more distance to travel in a spiral than in a straight line yet saves Energy if done right

thus it will in certain conditions provide an overshoot and firing solution

[Lephturn]

I'm not sure that's the proper name for it... your not reversing your flight path.

The move works very well though.  It is a horizontal rolling scissors.  The trick is judging the comparitive E state, and this can be very challenging.  To make it even tougher, you have to keep net lag in mind so that you time the start of the move just right.  You want him close enough to try to follow you, but not so close he kills you before you get started.  

Also, if you are in a fast accelerating plane such as a George or an FW, you can pull much harder in the rolls and slow down more, since you have the acceleration to make up for it after the overshoot.  If you are flying a slow accelerator like the Jug, you need to concentrate on timing it well and preserving as much speed as possible through the barrel rolls.  To do that try to be smooth and minimize hard pulls, while making the barrel roll as large as possible to keep speed up yet lengthen your flight path.

[SirLoin]

It's my favorite manouver when it works.. :)Only down side is when you pull it off,you sometimes get the"Nice warp" or "Please relog" message from the other guy..  

[Drano]

Works just great on a higher speed NME coming from your 6. Trick is also to not get yourself too slow in making the manuever. Just roll/pull hard enough to throw off his gunnery--don't bleed E unnescessarily. Remember, the idea is not to nescessarily get slower than the NME but to decrease the speed of your forward progress so that he overshoots. If he's fast and straight he'll pass you even if you're co-speed if your flight path is more of a barrel roll. You haven't lost much speed but you've travelled a farther distance in your roll. He'll get from point A to point B faster relative to you and overshoot--theoretically. This is more of a rolling scissors than a reversal. Other than the fact it usually puts him from your 6 to your 12 pretty fast. Take care after pulling this off tho. If you were a bit slower than the bad guy he may zoom and rope you if you get greedy. But that's where gauging his E state comes in. I try to think of this as more of a defensive manuever than an offensive one just because of this.

             Drano

[SpitLead]

Cit,

If nothing else, it's a great maneuver to throw off their gunnery.  I use it ALL the time when I'm being chased (which is more often than I'd like to admit   )

And, if I'm in a faster airplane at times it can get me those precious seconds to extend out of range because I AM conserving 'e' on the maneuver and not burning it with high 'G' turns.

The smart pilot will recognize that they are closing too fast and pull up to do a high yo-yo, then drop back down on your tail (hmmmm, now if I could only remember to do that....)

[Tuomio]

I always pull up when im the bouncer, if the enemy does even slightes move. The idea in bouncing is to suprise the enemy, or make him break to lose hes E and the first one is lost when he reacts. This barrell roll is best way to break. Ive never got hurt by this manouver, as its almost impossible to hit much faster plane, which is pulling up, ofcourse IF hes pulling up.

This works for novices or sloppy B&Z manouvers (eg. ib from hi 6, rather than low 6).
Oh and AH:s overmodeled 50cal (straight trajectory to atleast d650) in Citabrias hands can do damage, but hispanoes and such just cant hit.

[Lephturn]

Yes folks, this is a sucker move.  That means it only works if the other guy falls for it.  If he's paying attention and realizes what's happening, he can take steps to maintain his position in your rear hemisphere and camp out for a kill.  You will die repeatedly trying to get the timing right and judge the E states properly.

Oh, and you'll also get called a cheater if you do it just right.    It's when you shallow dive for speed, pull a nice lazy barrel roll and watch him pull too hard trying to follow you at higher speed.  Then as he zooms past, you gently roll onto his flight path and zoom up behind him and pop him like a baloon.  One of the most difficult things to do in this game is to judge E states, so if the other guy mis-judged the situation, he'll often not believe you can follow him up for the kill.  Hehe.  Just don't misjudge it yourself and end up the dope in a rope-a-dope! (Trying to follow him up when you don't have enough E and stalling under him, handing him an easy kill.)

[Booky]

Ok now you have said how to do this manouver. I want to know what I can do to not lose the advantage when the other guys does this. I have to admit the majority of my deaths are because I missed a kill, when he did this, and then he ended up killing me. I also do not know how to perform this manouver, and if I did, I might know what to do to not fall for it. Anyone want to help me? Unfortunetly I cant test anything you tell me since im going on vacation Monday morning as soon as I get off weekend work. But none the less I still would like to know for future encounters.

[Citabria]

the defense against this maneuver is not to try to bleed speed and stay on their 6

if you see you are getting suckered and your on their 6 and close in you should instead continue past them at full speed using a small amount of evasives after you pass them and begin your climb a few seconds later than normal. if you continue diving you will be safe but you will also be co E with them on your 6 in many cases as they build speed following your dive.

basically dont begin a turn and burn move from a high b&z position if you are worried about them pulling this move on you.

the biggest key is to anticipate what they are going to do and counter it. if you know they are gonna try and make you overshoot and blast you when you zoom down at 380mph then try to sucker them into thinking they can follow your climb by breaking from your pass early.

remember.. dont be predictable. if the bad guy knows where you are going he can fly directly there and blast you when you get there  instead of doing a bunch of fancy maneuvers  

recap: ways to counter this overshoot maneuver:

1. dont attempt to slow down when you have so much speed, blow passed them as fast as you can jink a bit and get out of their guns range and zoom back up if you have the e for it

2. anticipate their use of this move and saddle up. chop your throttle and bleed your speed down early enough to avoid the overshoot and stay with them when they roll.

3. dont miss.   if yer a crack shot and can hit a rolling plane then shoot them down and blow past their debri. if this fails resort to step 1.