Evade con on my 6

[101bakx]

Hi,

Ok, here's the deal. I have a lot of fun in AH but whenever i get a con on my 6 its very hard to evade him. Even with total blackout pulls and such.
Any tips on this ?

[Ripsnort]

Depends alot of what kind of A/C you have, and what kind the enemy has...Split S is always appealing in situations like this.

[101bakx]

But suppose nmy is in same a/c as i and he's on my 6 within 1k. Somehow it's hard to schake him off. More tips are welcome.

[Andy Bush]

101

Defensive BFM in AH often has less to do with aircraft choice or pilot BFM proficiency as it has to do with attacking pilot view management proficiency.

As the defender, your objective is to make the attacker lose sight of you (assuming your conditions of bandit range of 1000 yards, the attacker is out of gun range). If he were closer, you would have two problems...defeating the immediate gun threat and then defeating the bandit.

The easiest views to use in AH are the 12 o'clock views (forward and up). This is also the bandit's lift vector. As long as you remain in this area, the bandit will have a relatively easy time in keeping you in sight.

More difficult is when the attacker has to use side views to watch the target. Now, his viewing line of sight is different from his lift vector. The defender's objective should be to fly to an area where the attacker has difficulty keeping him in sight.

Two techniques come to mind. The first has already been mentioned. Use the Split S to fly below the attacker's nose. The attacker may lose sight briefly as he rolls to maintain the tally. In addition, the attacker may lose spatial awareness once inverted. To regain it, he may abandon the chase...or he could be over-aggressive, press the attack without understanding the BFM geometry. This may produce an overshoot, and, if you are at low altitude, a splashed bandit.

The second is to pull away from the attacker's lift vector (12 o'clock views). Do this by rolling to put your lift vector on the attacker's wingtip. Choose the low one to help keep your energy as high as possible. Then pull hard to displace yourself away from the bandit's nose. Watch for the bandit to roll to line up his lift vector with yours. If he does, immediately roll again to realign your lift vector with his wingtip.

Jinks seldom work unless the attacker is at minimum range with excessive closure...in this case, you may force an overshoot with random, hard jinking. Otherwise, jinking may spoil a gun track, but it does little else to a proficient attacker. He'll just wait you out.

The bottom line is that there is no 'silver bullet' against a determined and proficient attacker. That's what wingmen are for!!

Andy

See my articles at the Air Combat Corner, www.simhq.com  for more info.

[Beltfedd]

I'm still 5 weeks new, but I can tell you what I've learned.

#1 Short and quick jinking manuevering only seem to prolong the death struggle, have not escaped many with this (like someone else said, usually only works when someone's closure on you is way high).  

#2 Know the strengths and weaknesses of your aircraft vs. the one you are trying to escape.  I fly the La-7 mostly, so I can split up attackers (mostly) into two groups, those I can out-turn, and those I can out-run.  I have had many a turn n' burn plane on my 6 at less than D1 and managed to outrun them by diving and pulling slow maneuvers that are easy to track but hard to shoot at.  Long, slow barrel rolls to the ground come to mind.  This might not work in your plane of choice however (what are you flying?).

#3 If I have a chance of out-turning my attacker, I will usually use high or low yo-yos to gain angles (use flaps if you can to decrease turn radius).

#4 Keep your SA high with regard to friendlies.  A lot of times if you can pull maneuvers that keep your energy while still preventing your enemy an easy shot, you can drag him to friendly aircraft and AA fire to help you.

#5 Scissoring is really effective in some aircraft, check out the thread I started in this forum, the other flyers here put some great diagrams in it.  Although I'm no good at it personally yet  , I've been on the tail of some 190s that do this very effectively.  Half the time they end up killing me, even though I went into the fight with good E on their 6.

#6 Final point, realize that there are times when you are in a situation where there is not much you can do.  If I've just gotten 2 kills in 3 mins/my energy is depleted, and then a high energency spit gets on my la-7s tail, I'm as good as dead if he's good.  Basically that fight was won before the 1st shot was fired, so I go back to the hangar and comtemplate what I did wrong to get myself into that disadvantageous position.


Hope some of this helps  ,

Belt

[Lephturn]

 

Defensive BFM in AH often has less to do with aircraft choice or pilot BFM proficiency as it has to do with attacking pilot view management proficiency.

Andy, I think YOU have a problem with the view management in AH, but I don't think that's the case for the majority of the players.  Folks who are real life pilots in particular sometimes have a real problem relating to the AH view systm.  Although it can take some getting used to, the AH view system works very well for most folks, even the newer players.  I don't think your statement is true at all.  If you want to live, focus on good defensive BFM, thinking about the view system is largely a red herring.

In fact I think it's safe to say that defensive BFM in AH will have more to do with relative energy states, speeds, and rates of closure than aircraft choice or how good the attacker is with the view system.

Moves that go under the bandit's nose work because they increase closure and increase the attacker's speed making it more difficult for him to maneuver.  Yes, they may also make him lose sight, but that's a limitation of the plane, not necessarily the view system.  It's very easy for the bandit to keep you in that 12 o'clock view range by rolling his plane normally, so there is not a lot you can do about this.  If you dive below his line of sight, he may lose sight because he can't see through the plane, not because of the view system.  If you try to something like "fly to a spot where he has to look out the side" you are going to end up giving the attacker the advantage.

The majority of pilots in AH win because they have good BFM and ACM, not because they try to "exploit" the view system.  Trying to design your BFM around the view system will just get you killed.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Andy Bush]

Lephturn

Fair enough, but I wasn't being critical of the views. I think I tried to identify a weak spot in the attack and then I suggested some specific examples of how to exploit that weakness. That's how we do it in the real world...find a weak spot and attack the bandit there.

Now it's your turn. The man asked how to evade an attack from his six. No generalizations, please. How do you do it?

>>Moves that go under the bandit's nose work because they increase closure and increase the attacker's speed making it more difficult for him to maneuver.<<

That is generally true of any hard, defensive turn, regardless of the direction. If the Split S is a good tactic to use and keeping a tally is not the issue, then why is the maneuver a good choice?

>>If you try to something like "fly to a spot where he has to look out the side" you are going to end up giving the attacker the advantage.<<

My point here was to suggest it was better to turn out-of plane-rather than in-plane. Are you suggesting that an in-plane break is better?

>>The majority of pilots in AH win because they have good BFM and ACM...<<

What is the difference in the two terms, particularly with regard to the poster's question?

No offense meant! Just curious.

Andy

 

[Andy Bush]

One last note.

>>I don't think your statement is true at all. If you want to live, focus on good defensive BFM, thinking about the view system is largely a red herring.<<

No one dismisses the value of good BFM, offensive or defensive.

In the context of this subject as applied to this sim, perhaps a general question should be asked of the audience at large:

"Do you lose an engagement due to your inability to fly BFM or because you lose sight of the bandit and end up getting shot as the result."

Andy

[Tac]

As long as there are icons, it will be very hard to shake someone off your 6.

Best thing's ive seen are to either out-run ot out-turn cons on your 6.

T&B planes, just turn hard, turn downwards spiral when low on speed, turn upward spiral when on hi - e. At some point, if the plane the other person is flying has a bigger turn rate than yours, you will either turn into him or that con will stop chasing you (or better yet, they will auger). Use the verticals pulling high-g's. I think T&B planes best bet is to get slow and dirty and use their turn rate to catch B&Z planes with snapshots on their zoom part.

B&Z planes have it much harder. Since the icon screams your location no matter what manouver you do, its best to run for it, or if you cant, try to sciscor. I dont know any other ways to get someoen off my 6. P-38 being so big its hard to pull some more complicated manouvers that you can do in a 109 or p-51, as its easy to kill with a snapshot.

I'd love to know how other vet pilots here do it, I generally see someone on my 6 I either dive or sciscor.. and usually die on both.

[Spatula]

The best defense from it is not to let them get there in the first place. How?
1. Dont put yourself in dangerous positions.
2. Only attack when you have an advantage and/or a good contingency plan/wingman/feild close by or something else.
3. Work for his 6 OC, if your doing this in a better turner then thats easy. If in a faster plane or better climber use your speed to zoom, or run away or spiral climb.

Assuming he gets on ya 6, the closure rate is one of the most important factors. Fast closure means, jinks, sissors, barrell rolls etc will work and work well. Slow closure, means you either make a run for it or out-turn him depending on your planes performance relative to your enemies. Sometimes i find that tight spiral dives on the edge of blackout can save you arnold at times, really will only work if your kite is faster.
In a hog you can go into a spiral dive and drop landin gear and  chop throttle, pop flaps etc and watch the con overshoot you, then bring it all back in and power up and your on  

Hope this helps some.

Spat.

[Lephturn]

Andy,

 

Fair enough, but I wasn't being critical of the views. I think I tried to identify a weak spot in the attack and then I suggested some specific examples of how to exploit that weakness. That's how we do it in the real world...find a weak spot and attack the bandit there.

I agree, that's how to go about it.  The part I'm disagreeing with is your statement that attacking pilot view mamagement often has more to with Defensive BFM than the other factors.  I just don't agree.  I'm concerned that folks will read this and possibly try to design defenses that defeat the view system... and while that would be a good idea if it were possible, I don't think it will work.  I'm sorry if that came off a bit nasty, it wasn't meant that way.    Trying to make the bandit lose sight is an important part of air combat certainly, I just wan't to make sure we are focusing on that, and not on perceived view system limitations.  I agree some folks out there will have some problems with the view system, and it can be a factor, but many pilots can use it expertly.  My point is that we have to design our defensive moves around the really good fellows for whom the view system is not much of a factor.  Moves that work agains these guys, will work even more so against someone who hasn't yet mastered the view system, but if we try to design our defense the other way around, the better pilots will kill us more easily.  

 

Now it's your turn. The man asked how to evade an attack from his six. No generalizations, please. How do you do it?

Exactly what to do when attacked from behind is going to depend on many factors, such as range when the bogey is spotted, relative energy states, closure, and comparitive plane performance.  It's impossible not to generalize when presented with no specific situation.  What I'll do is set up a specific situation and go over how I would defend in that situaion.

Setup:  I'm flying my P-47-D25 as usual.  I've got about 50% internal fuel and I'm cruising at say 12k at 300 Mph.  A dot works it's way to my long high 6 unseen.  I spot him at about D3.0k as he is shallow diving on my high six.  The bogey is identified as a Spit IX.  At this point, he is closing quickly, ad I have no time to turn into him and get nose to nose.  Had I spotted him earlier, I would have reversed and forced him into a nose to nose merge.

Now I'm in the soup.  I have allowed a very good performing plane to get to my high six area.  As I watch him come in, I will start a shallow dive to force him to dive even more to set up on me.  If he is closing rapidly and it looks like I can force an overshoot, I will start a barrel roll headed downward at about  D 800 or so (the faster the closure, the sooner I do it) and track the bandit with my six view.  Next, one of two things will happen, either he inverts and attempts to pull lead, or he closes rapidly and overshoots.  Most times, the faster bandit will pull up and attempt to zoom away.  Now I have a choice.  I can either continue the roll and attempt to zoom behind the overshooting bandit and nail him, or I can 0G dive toward home or friendlies for an escape.  This is a tough judgement, and it will depend on relative energy states as judged by your speed and closure rates.  Normally, it's not a matter of watching what the bogey does and reacting, but predicting it based on his speed and closure.  I don't watch what he does in the views and decide, it's too late by then.  I make a judgement call on what I think he is going to do and I plan my counter and then execute it.  I will watch him in my views, and see if he does something I don't expect, and adjust accordingly.

I now have two options I would use, I can try a sucker move to increase closure and force an overshoot, or I can try to Split-S away.  A sucker move will be any move like a decending spiral or scissors, something designed to increase closure and force an overshoot.  These are dangerous, and I would normally only attempt it versus a plane that is faster than mine that I can't expect to escape from.  In this particular situation I know I can out dive and out run a SPit IX in my Jug, so the safe move for me is to simply perform a split-S (slightly oblique to make me harder to predict) as the bogey approaches under D 1.0k , roll out on a vector that aims me at home, and don't level out until I'm either skimming the wavetops or am at 500 Mph or more.

Now, I might also choose the Split-S if I am close enough to friendlies or another source of protection such as friendly AAA.  Even versus a faster plane, the split-S will gain me some separation if I time it right and I may be able to get to that protection before the faster bogey can run me down again.  In addition, if there are other friendlies in the area, the enemy may be reluctant to give up all that altitude to chase me when I split-S and run, so he may decide to just let me go.

Now the only other possibly result here is that the enemy actually tries to follow my Split-S.  He is faster at this point, so if he tries to follow his turn will be much larger and he will likely overshoot below me.  At this point I simply dive or barrel roll down onto his 6 and gun his brains out.  This is very rarely the case, as most pilots will instinctively avoid this situation, choosing instead to zoom away and retain their energy.  If he does try to follow though, it can be hard to track visually.  You will see the bogey initially in your six view as you roll inverted and pull.  You will see him invert as well to match your plane of flight and follow.  You will likely also see him slide beneath your six view below you as you level out, and that's when you know you've got him.  You'll have to roll to get him in view again, but that's what you need to do anyway to roll down onto his six.  Be careful, as this can turn into a rolling scissors if the bogey is a smart one, but since he is flying faster at this point it is very likely he will overshoot immediately and you can shoot him.

The worst case scenario would be a plane with similar performance that is willing to slow his plane to follow your Split-S.  If this happens, you either misjudged his speed and energy state, or you started your move too early.  In either case, if he simply follows you, both of you end up lower and pointed the other way, but essentially in the same situation.  Plane performance will now dictate what you do, but assuming you can't escape or out turn him, you will have to try one of the "sucker" moves to force an overshoot.

 

>>Moves that go under the bandit's nose work because they increase closure and increase the attacker's speed making it more difficult for him to maneuver.<<

That is generally true of any hard, defensive turn, regardless of the direction. If the Split S is a good tactic to use and keeping a tally is not the issue, then why is the maneuver a good choice?

The Split S is a good choice because it forces the bogey to dive to lead the target for a shot and to maintain sight, so it increases closure and the target's speed even more than a horizontal or upwards break turn would.  Yes, it does play on his keeping you in sight as well, but not on his use of the view system.  He can either see you through the front view or he lets you slip under him.

 

>>If you try to something like "fly to a spot where he has to look out the side" you are going to end up giving the attacker the advantage.<<

My point here was to suggest it was better to turn out-of plane-rather than in-plane. Are you suggesting that an in-plane break is better?

Not at all, I'm just pointing out that the reason to choose an out-of plane turn is for reasons other than "to make him look out the side view".  Out-of-plane moves force the bogey to change his flight path to follow or gain lead, and also (and sometimes most importantly) keep your flight path from being too easily predictable.

 

>>The majority of pilots in AH win because they have good BFM and ACM...<<

What is the difference in the two terms, particularly with regard to the poster's question?

No offense meant! Just curious.

We do throw these terms around quite a bit without defining them very often.  I know you are more qualified to answer that than I am, but I'll make a stab at it anyway.  If I blow it, I'm sure you'll correct me and we can all learn something.    Bah, and me at work without my Shaw handy!

BFM  Basic Flight Maneuvers.  At a very low level, making the plane go where you want it to.  Specific maneuvers such as a yoyo or a split-S are examples of BFM.

ACM  Air Combat Maneuvers.  I'm less sure about how to define this one, but basically I look at it as the use of BFM to accomplish your objective.  ACM includes things like wingman formations and choosing what BFM to use to kill the other guy.  I see ACM as the overall fight, while BFM is the "moves" I use in the fight.

I'm interested to hear your comments.  I'm not sure exactly where that line gets drawn, or if I'm looking at it the right way.



------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Lephturn]

I'll throw in on this one too, since I'm on a roll.  

 

"Do you lose an engagement due to your inability to fly BFM or because you lose sight of the bandit and end up getting shot as the result."

Personally, I find I lose most engagements because of bad Situational Awareness.  By that I mean I either misjudge the bogey's energy state, or I don't see his wingman rolling in to blow me away.  If we limit this to a 1v1 situation, I lose most times due to misjudging the enemy's energy state.  It's very tricky to estimate properly, and if I make a mistake the enemy may counter my move with something I didn't expect, and I get killed.  For example, I perform a high six attack on a bogey, he breaks, and I zoom away from him.  He rolls back onto me and zooms up behind me, shooting my tail off.  Oops, I didn't think he had the E to do that.  

Sometimes I die because I simply chose the wrong maneuver for the situation, or I timed the move wrong and did it too early.  Both really come down to estimating comparative energy states and making the correct decision based on that and other factors like comparative plane performance.  Sometimes I'll try to perform a maneuver I didn't have enough speed to complete, and die.  Sometimes I'll just have a brain fart and do something stupid that obviously wouldn't work and die.  Occasionally, I'll just perform the move wrong and die, but that's less likely.

I will say that I do lose some fights because I lose sight.  Well, not really because I lost sight so much as I didn't predict his next move well enough.  I do move X which includes him being under my belly for a time, and when I complete my move and go to reacquire, he's not where I expect him to be.  Ruh Roh.  By the time I re-acquire him, I am likely in deep trouble.  It's not normally a failure of my view tracking skills, but a bad choice of maneuvers and a bad guess as to his next move.

I have been killed sometimes by screwing up my views, but it's pretty rare for me.  It tends to happen when I've been in a long fight, or a sting of engagements where I've been defensive.  I get wound up, sweaty hands, and shaky from the excitement.  Then I sometimes fumble the view hat or they get slippery and I screw up.  Normally those are less of a problem though, because as long as I have predicted where he is going well enough, I can easily re-acquire him.  It's only if I fumble the views at just the wrong time that it gets me killed, and that's very rare in my experience.  

I'm very interested to hear the experience of others in this regard!


------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 04-19-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Let me make a note of caution for the new guys reading this thread.

While the Split S is a popular defensive manuever (actually overused in AH), it should be used with caution, and only in the appropriate situations.

In Lephturns description it is an appropriate manuever because of aircraft differences. IE a fast speed/dive speed aircraft versus a turnfighter. In other words, he felt that he could outdive the Spitfire, keeping the Spitfire out of a guns solution, and once on the deck exiting the fight, the Spitfire could not overhaul him in level flight on the deck. But if he misjudges the Spitfire's E state, it still may have the energy (speed) to run him down in the chase.

However, Say its the same situation, but with a Fw190D attacking a lower and slower Spit IX or N1K2. IE A fast plane versus a good turning plane. In this case, I would say a Split S is a very bad choice for a defensive manuever. In this case, yes, you will make him miss the guns pass. BUT you have given up a very large amount of E, in the form of altitude. Eventually he will wear you do to the deck, while maintaining a E advantage, and eventually kill you because you do not have the speed to disengage from the fight. In this case you have to win the fight, to leave the fight alive. And to win the fight, you need to maintain enough E to perform manuevers that will allow you to possibly get a reversal, or incite the enemy to make a mistake.

In short, don't use the Split S like a one trick circus pony.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 04-19-2001).]

[Andy Bush]

Well, we both wrote a ton of words and ended up pretty much saying the same things!

>>Trying to make the bandit lose sight is an important part of air combat certainly, I just wasn't to make sure we are focusing on that, and not on perceived view system limitations<<

Maybe a poor choice of words on my part, but this is what I was trying to say. I wasn't being critical of the view system on its merits. I was suggesting that pilots sometimes have difficulty using it, and this may be a weakness that the defender can take advantage of. If a given defensive maneuver requires the attacker to change views in a certain manner, this is something that may work to the defender's advantage if the attacker selects the wrong view or is slow to select the right view.

>>I'm sorry if that came off a bit nasty, it wasn't meant that way.<<

I know that. Your posts are always very even handed.

>>If he is closing rapidly and it looks like I can force an overshoot, I will start a barrel roll headed downward...<<

You've lost me here. You are descending with the bandit closing at your six. You begin a 'barrel roll'. This produces an outcome that you will then exploit. I don't doubt your flying abilities...I know you are able to do this...I just think you are using wrong terminology here. Specifically, the term 'barrel roll'. This maneuver is a loose , slow aileron roll. I'm unsure how such a maneuver fits into your description of a maneuver that produces an overshoot. Perhaps you are thinking more of a 'vector roll' combined with a throttle chop...this maneuver would produce the additional closure that would likely result in an overshoot. A simple roll by itself would likely not...the attacker only has to follow you thru it.

>>The Split S is a good choice because it forces the bogey to dive to lead the target for a shot and to maintain sight, so it increases closure and the target's speed even more than a horizontal or upwards break turn would.<<

Unless the defender throttles back in the Split S, this outcome is unlikely. The Split S is just a hard break turn flown in the vertical...think of a typical hard horizontal turn plane that is rotated 90 degrees.

Yes, the attacker accelerates in the Split S, but so does the defender. The result is a wash unless the defender throttles back or drops his speed brake.

The outcome of the Split S from a BFM point of view should be no different than the outcome of the horizontal break. The attacker will either be inside or outside the defender's turn circle...and will take whatever appropriate action is necessary to remedy any BFM problems that arise.

What happens in a Split S that doesn't happen in a horizontal break, is that the attacker's world is flip-flopped 90 degrees. The horizon may not be visible during most of the maneuver...the maneuver just doesn't 'look right'. The Split S can often result in disorientation for the attacker due to the lack of a horizon reference.

In addition, if the attacker rolls into the Split S as soon as the defender starts his, then often the attacker will commit his nose into a lead pursuit course that will result in an end game corner that he simply can't make...an overshoot that may well result in the defender realizing that he is in a vertical dive and may not have the altitude to recover. At this point, all thoughts of the target disappear in a heartbeat as the attacker goes into full survival mode.

The outcome is that the Split S works against the attacking pilot's visual shortcomings (in this case, his tendency towards disorientation whenever the horizon is out of sight)...not any inherent BFM advantage for the defender.

>>Bah, and me at work without my Shaw handy!<<

Air combat terminology is not an exact science. Shaw, being a Navy puke, uses different terms in certain situations from what an Air Force puke would use!

Being a lead winger, I tend to like the AF way of describing air combat. In the AF, BFM are simple 1v1 offensive and defensive set piece, scripted maneuvers, for example a break turn, a barrel roll attack. The BFM maneuver is seen in isolation as just a scripted maneuver without any attempt to put it into a 'engagement'.

ACM (Air Combat Maneuvering), in the AF, takes air combat to the next level...more than 1v1. ACM are offensive and defensive maneuvers flown 2v1...where the '2' are the good guys and the '1', a single bandit. In AF ACM, the idea is to learn two ship mutual support fundamentals. Again, the maneuvers are set piece and completely scripted...seen in isolation from an 'engagement' type of maneuver flow.

Then comes ACT (Air Combat Tactics. ACT is when we take BFM and ACM and put them together into a complete engagement where multiple maneuvers may be flown to reach an objective. ACT could be anything from 1v1 to multi-bogey. ACT is not 'scripted', while BFM and ACM are.

The USN does not refer to ACT as such and tends to lump everything outside of 1v1 BFM into one large ACM category (or at least that's how it was in my day!)

Andy

 

[Lephturn]

 

>>If he is closing rapidly and it looks like I can force an overshoot, I will start a barrel roll headed downward...<<

You've lost me here. You are descending with the bandit closing at your six. You begin a 'barrel roll'. This produces an outcome that you will then exploit. I don't doubt your flying abilities...I know you are able to do this...I just think you are using wrong terminology here. Specifically, the term 'barrel roll'. This maneuver is a loose , slow aileron roll. I'm unsure how such a maneuver fits into your description of a maneuver that produces an overshoot. Perhaps you are thinking more of a 'vector roll' combined with a throttle chop...this maneuver would produce the additional closure that would likely result in an overshoot. A simple roll by itself would likely not...the attacker only has to follow you thru it.

Hmmm.  Ok, let me try to restate this.  I'm not talking about a simple aileron roll, but I guess what you would call a "vector roll".  I mean I'm rolling, but I'm also pulling back considerably as I do it.  I said "downward" because I don't start it by pulling up, I basically don't start the pulling part until I've rolled about 45 degrees to one side, and I feed it in more as I increase the roll toward inverted.  It's close to what I would do to start an oblique split-S.  It looks like... well the beginning of a corkscrew if you are looking at the plane from behind.  From the attacker's point of view it may look like the start of a hard break turn that I keep rolling through.  The idea is to get him to follow it a bit at first, thinking it's a break turn and he can lead me, and then roll so that I turn downward increasingly so he'll miss the shot.  He already has lots of closure, so an overshoot is inevitable if he presses the attack, and it's just a matter of avoiding his attack first.  If I follow my roll through I can then zoom with him as he overshoots for a shot.  I'd also add that the second I am sure he has overshot, I will relax my pull considerably and just aileron roll to preserve my speed.

I normally don't chop throttle here.  In the situation we are discussing above, the enemy already has high closure, and I am relying on that to keep him from following.  If there is no closure, or very little, we have an entirely different situation, where I will have to try one of those "sucker moves" I mention to generate the excess closure.  In the case I specified above, the enemy alread is flying significantly faster and is closing quickly, and that is the situation in which I use this maneuver.

 

>>The Split S is a good choice because it forces the bogey to dive to lead the target for a shot and to maintain sight, so it increases closure and the target's speed even more than a horizontal or upwards break turn would.<<

Unless the defender throttles back in the Split S, this outcome is unlikely. The Split S is just a hard break turn flown in the vertical...think of a typical hard horizontal turn plane that is rotated 90 degrees.

Yes, the attacker accelerates in the Split S, but so does the defender. The result is a wash unless the defender throttles back or drops his speed brake.

At this point we are on a different page in terms of the setup.  A split S may not be the best choice if this is a static situation with little or no closure.  In a case like that it would depend heavily on the relative performance of the aircraft as to what I would choose to do.  Verses a Spit IX for example I may choose more of a traditional oblique split-S, likely with a throttle chop and pull HARD.  It's unlikely a Spit IX is going to follow a Jug through that without an overshoot unless he is very careful or I time it badly.  If I don't have a performance difference I can exploit, I would try something more traditional like a defensive spiral.

I do agree that the inverted nature of the maneuver can cause disorientation and is definately a benefit.  The split S is better than other break turns if either the attacker is faster and has a high closure rate, or there is an airplane performance disparity that can be exploited.  (Such as the Spit's inability to slow down quickly compared to the Jug.)  In those cases, the nose low nature of the Split S makes it a good choice, because it uses gravity to make the attacker go even faster, increasing his problems.

Sounds like I was pretty close about BFM versus ACM, but your definition includes more in the BFM equasion than I thought.  Thanks for the info, I'll use that to try and be clearer in the future.  


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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

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