40mm guns on the CV's

[AKFokerFoder+]

It is my understanding that the 40mm guns had fuses and would explode at set distances with such rounds.  The fuses would be adjusted as the targets got nearer or farther from the gun.

I think that the CV's 40mm guns should reflect this reality.  It is in my most humble of opinions that the CVs are way to soft a target.  40mms with flack could help even the ability of a CV to defend itself against Kamakaze Jugs and other Jabos.

I would only like to see this feature on manned guns, as I don't want to go back to the days of lazer guided ack on CV's.

I do think that they should be harder targets.

I would also like to see that there would be no CV without it's proper escorts of destroyers and cruisers.

I would kind of like to see the 88 ack on bases also be able to be manned.

AKFokerFoder climbs off his soap box, and waits for the flack

[Ghosth]

I'd like to do away with the AI 88's.

You want to defend your field, man the guns.

[Rasker]

Originally posted by Ghosth
I'd like to do away with the AI 88's.

You want to defend your field, man the guns.

Gimme several 88's with stereoscopic rangefinder, or gunlaying Wurzburg or Freya radar, and your on!

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Ghosth
I'd like to do away with the AI 88's.

You want to defend your field, man the guns.

Okay, but then we need to simulate the entire gun crew, including the ranging, lead computing, and all that.  The shipboard manned 5-inchers would become DEADLY, since combining the prox fuse with proper lead computing sights would make mincemeat out of approaching planes.  Look at the results attained against kamikazes.  As a percentage of sorties, very, very few made it through the ack.



shubie

[frank3]

What I'd like to see is that planes being surrounded by flak shudder and shake by the shell-bursts.

(though this should not affect the calibration)

[Sled]

I have noticed that the 5" guns on CVs are VERY accurate. I think a little TO accurate. Since a couple of patches ago, I have started losing a lot of fighters to 5" ack, being shot by people who are manning those guns. The way I see it the 5" guns should be a weapon used to defend the CV against in coming Buffs, Planes flying straight and level on a bombing run, The problem is these guns are so accurate, they are nailing Fighters as far as 8 miles away!! I have been a full key pad away from a CV Group and been blown to bits by 5" ack, and the regular AI ack  (puffy ack) wasn't even firing yet!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone was nailing fighters with one shot from even 5 miles away in WWII. Bottom line the 5" guns on the CVs are WAY too accurate.  It is to the point now that you don't even want to get within 10 miles of a enemy CV in a fighter. Which means the bandit you are chasing has a much bigger area to run to, so his buddy on the CV can nail you 5 miles out. It's BS.

[Mugzeee]

I have been diving on NME fleets with reagular sucess in P47 D-40s even to date. I have to start dive at 20+K and pull out by about 12k to 9K.

[Leayme]

I brought this over from something I posted in in regards to PT boats thread.


"I was browsing thru some bookmarked pages and I found this gem detailing proximity fuses.

http://www.smecc.org/radio_fuzes.html

"The burst range for a 5 inch shell is 70 yards"

Which means a shell burst a hundred feet away is in the lethal envelope and if you are out side the 210 feet you stand a better chance of flying away.

Notice the use of this type of proximity fuze against aircraft in WWII (1943 onwards) and the "Claimed" unreasonable performance in AH2 and I would say that the as it is currently modelled is just about bang on.

Further down is reference to its use in the battle of the bulge, in the anti personnel role.....OUCH

Difficulties early in testing of this type of fuze against low flying torpedo planes were addressed. Signals returns from waves when the shell was fired at low trajectories could also trigger the fuze prematurely and even prevent the fuze from arming. To over come this a circuit was devised, known as the wave suppresion feature to reduce the sensitivity of the fuze to spurious wave noise also known as an automatic valve control. (MK58 fielded in November of 1944 USN)

Based on this fact, the 5 inch AAA shell are working just as they should when they get a bigger radar return off a PT boat or low flying aircraft, versus the spurious signal from a wave top and exploding in close proximity to the target"

I posted this in "called a cheater! must be doing something right"

"Here is some details on the USN 5-38 (12.7) MK 12 Naval gun that was perhaps the best ever fielded.

Projectile

AAVT MK 39 and 49 54.61 lbs
bursting charge 7.9 lbs
Propellant charge Flashless 15.5 lbs Non-Flashless 15.4 lbs
Empty cartridge 13.25 lbs

MV New Gun 2600 fps
Avg. Gun 2500 fps
Working pressure 18.0 Tons/in2 (square)
Barrel life 4600 rds

Range at Elevation with AAVT/AAC MK 49

10 deg 9506 yards
15 deg 11,633
20 deg 13,395
25 deg 14,804
30 deg 15,919
35 deg 16,739
40 deg 17,240
45 deg 17,392

AA Ceiling 37,200 feet

New Gun Maximum Range at 2600 fps 18,200 yards

Time of flight for MK 49 round

5000 yards 8.0 sec
10000 yards 22.0 sec
15000 yards 43.0 sec
17,270 yards 68.8 sec

So all the fighter/bombers out there better watch out  because you are in range for a long way when dealing with 5 inch guns of a Battle Group"

In case you were wondering 18,200 yards is 10.34 miles add that to radar assisted guns and radar proximity fuse and you are in range.

The 40mm Bofors gun

Year of Construction: 1942
Bore: 40mm
Weight of gun: 522kg / 1150lbs
Weight of barrel: 91.6kg/ 202 lbs
Length of gun: 3,779.5mm/ 148.8 ins.
Length of bore: 2,250mm/ 88.853 ins. (56 calibers)
Wt. of projectile: 0.9kg / 1.985 lbs
Max. Range (Anti-Ship): 10.1km / 11,000 yds at 42° elevation
Max. Effective Range: 2.7km /3,000 yds
Ceiling (Anti-Air): 6.950 km/ 22,800 ft./ 7,600 yds at 90° elevation
Max. Elevation: 90°
Rate of Fire: 120 - 160 rounds/min/barrel; governed by the speed of loading 4 round clips.
Crew: Twin - 7; Pointer, Trainer, Gun Captain, 4 Loaders (2/Barrel)


Fighting inside the AAA/AA threat envelope of a Battle group is a good way to end up hanging underneath a large piece of silk enjoying the view:D

[RTO]

That's some very good info.  Nice find and post.  I only have one comment though and that's I never end up in silk floating gracefully down in to the wide blue sea it's always back in a tower looking out instantly.  

[IronDog]

The 40mm wasn't fused.It had to hit something to make it explode.The 76mm was the smallest calibre to be fused.It would appear that AH has it right as far as accuracy,and being harder to hit with Osti,but easier to shoot down aircraft with 5"38's,with their proximity fuses.As aircraft speeds increased,the ability to hit lessened,and along came the antiaircraft missles.The fuse setters job was an interesting job,special wrench used to turn the fuse to it's desired range,and this all being done whilst the firing procedure was ongoing.You could reach out and touch someone a long way out with 5"38's,and I believe the best range for 40mm was out to about 4k.It took 4 loaders per gun to keep the 40's in ammo.Was a hot casemen in a 5"38 mount,a long time ago.

IronDog