Author Topic: Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?  (Read 1918 times)

Offline Muckmaw1

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« on: December 14, 2004, 01:48:22 PM »
Report lays part of blame for Concorde crash on Continental Airlines

2 hours, 50 minutes ago   Top Stories - AFP
 


PARIS (AFP) - A French legal inquiry into the July 2000 Concorde crash outside Paris that killed 113 people presented findings Tuesday that put part of the blame on the US airline Continental.

The report by judge Christophe Regnard concluded, after four years of questioning experts and witnesses, that the causes of the crash were two-fold: a structural fault in the Concorde's design, and a titanium metal strip left lying on the runway from a preceding Continental plane.


The metal strip played a "direct" role in the accident, which killed all 109 people on board the New York-bound Concorde and four people on the ground, the report said.


But it also said the Concorde suffered a "relative weakness" on the interior surface of its distinctive delta-shaped wings which shielded the fuel tanks.


When the Air France Concorde, speeding down the runway at Charles de Gaulle airport on July 25, 2000, hit the titanium strip, shredding one of its tyres, chunks of rubber were sent through a wing fuel tank.


With the tank ablaze and engine power failing, the supersonic plane plummeted into a hotel near the airport in a fireball.


The spectacular disaster ultimately contributed to the aviation icon being pulled from the skies last year.


Regnard's report said the problem with the weakness of the Concorde's wings was discovered during its years of service but "were not sufficiently noted by relevant parties" such as its maker, Aerospatiale, and France's air safety office, the BEA.


The first recorded instance of the fault being noticed was in a 1979 memo that warned of the sort of wing-penetration accident that occurred in 2000, according to the report.


"Technical solutions to reinforce the wing's lower surface on the aircraft ... were researched in 1979. The work was never carried out until 2001, after the accident," it said.


The Concorde suffered 67 tyre blowouts or wheel damage during its years of service. In 24 of those cases, the plane suffered impacts and in seven instances "the fuel tanks were pierced with one or several holes," the experts consulted in the report said.


Nevertheless, the judge said the design problem was "not a construction defect" and he concluded that the 2000 accident would not have occurred without the presence of the 44-centimetre (17-inch) titanium strip that had fallen off a Continental DC-10 using the same runway five minutes earlier, it said.


The object had a "direct causal role" in the accident, his report said.


Investigations showed that the strip, used in engine housings, should have been made of aluminium, a softer alloy which would not have cut the Concorde's tyres.


The component was replaced with the much harder titanium strip by Continental maintenance in Houston, Texas.


According to Regnard's office, "the fact that the strip from the DC-10 was of different material, titanium, than that originally used, had a direct incidence in the Concorde's crash."


That finding could expose Continental to a criminal lawsuit for manslaughter and possibly millions of euros (dollars) in damages.

   



The US airline last week rejected any responsibility in a strongly worded statement.

"We formally contest that Continental Airlines played a role in the Concorde accident," it said.


*** My comments: Seems to me like we've got 2 parties to blame here. Aerospatiale for knowing about a problem since 1979 and not correcting it.

And possibly Continental for replacing a part with titianium.

So Aluminum would not have cut the concorde tires?

Parts falling off airplanes....pretty common, is'nt it?

Offline ra

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2004, 01:57:38 PM »
The first two were better.

Offline Chairboy

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2004, 02:03:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ra
The first two were better.

Seconded.  This is why people with parkinsons should be extra careful when posting to the BBS.
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Offline Furious

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2004, 02:05:36 PM »
that is one gay-assed conclusion.

Offline AWMac

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2004, 02:09:41 PM »
At first I thought it was BGB triple posting threads of the same subject....then I seen it was Muck.

Now I'm worried.

:(










:rofl

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2004, 02:15:43 PM »
The tire could have blown for many reasons and still caused the damage...  It was the tire that blew a hole into the wing tanks not the metal.  Not saying that continental does not share some responsibility it just seems to be a bit of a cop out.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2004, 02:23:56 PM »
From the wording though, it sounds like the judge isnt blaming Continental for having a part fall off the plane.  He's blaming them for using titanium when the specs called for the part to be aluminum.  I suppose if Continental can show they used titanium instead of aluminum because the original specs were flawed in some way, and not just because "stronger is better", the judge's opinion could be overturned.

I would think there has to be a reasonable expectation that any mechanical device, no matter how routinely it is inspected and maintained, will have failures of parts that cannot be forseen.  What about the airport's policing policy?  Aren't they held at all responsible?

Offline Muckmaw1

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2004, 02:34:55 PM »
You cannot expect the airport to walk the runway everytime a plane lands or takes off.

It seems to me, tire blow outs, no matter the cause, should not lead to catastophic failure of the aircraft.

Continental's titanium would be a contributing factor, of course, but was'nt it just a matter of time before the weak fuel tanks ruptured from a blow out?

Offline indy007

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2004, 02:35:21 PM »
Okay, being strictly a sim pilot, I don't know much about airport operations.. but isn't there supposed to be a crew that makes sure the runway in clear? If not, there should be. It's not exactly a cone'd up autocross course. It's a freakin' runway.

Offline soda72

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2004, 02:59:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
What about the airport's policing policy?  Aren't they held at all responsible?


I would hope that the airport would ensure safety for all aircraft by making sure sharp metal objects are not on the runway, before an aircraft takes off.  Why aren't there safety procedures for this?

Offline Curval

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 02:59:51 PM »
This is silly.  If a part of Continental's plane fell off and caused the accident, which it did in my opinion, then that airline is partially responsible.  That's it...no issue.

If this had been any other country's aircraft you would never have questioned the courts decision.  Just more vieled France bashing.
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Offline Halo

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2004, 03:08:16 PM »
With all those expert eagle eyes around an airport, isn't the airport responsible for keeping its runways and taxiways clear of foreign objects, i.e. debris?  

If a part falls off your automobile and you didn't know it and another car has an accident because of it, is it your fault?

If you replaced a part on your car with another part that is stronger but it falls off and causes an accident because it was stronger, is that your fault?

Carelessness and intent are obvious causes for litigation, but sheer chance, i.e., pure accident without precedent, seems a stretch.  

Better that vengeance energy like this be transferred to preventive energy such as outlawing truck hi-ride modifications that elevate their bumpers in line with most normal vehicles' windshields.
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Offline Curval

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2004, 03:11:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
If you replaced a part on your car with another part that is stronger but it falls off and causes an accident because it was stronger, is that your fault?


Yes.  Basically it is a pretty useless "stronger" part if it falls off.
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Offline NUKE

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Re: Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2004, 03:18:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Muckmaw1


The object had a "direct causal role" in the accident, his report said.




Well no chit!

The main reason the plane went down was that is could not survive a tire blowout, from what I'm reading here. They knew it was a problem back in 1979 an did not fix the problem.

I'd say that Concord was negligent.

Offline Curval

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Concorde Accident: Continental's Fault?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2004, 03:22:25 PM »
To all of you Americans posting in this thread:

Stop and imagine this was a British Airways flight instead of a US carrier being given "partial" blame.

Would your angst be the same?  In fact would this even be posted and discussed?

My guess is no.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain