Author Topic: Congrats, United States of Europe!  (Read 2454 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2004, 08:56:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
invading a 3rd world country and undermining its sovereignty doesn't take balls, it just takes a stupid man with blind followers...in other words, atomotons


 I'd rather follow a stupid man who doesn't stand around on  the sidelines watching a homicidal maniac bribe these so called "Smart" leaders from "Smart" countries to the point where the very sanctions they are charged with enforcing degrade to utter insignificance while routinely committing mass murder on his own population
  Then follow the lead of these "smart" countries and their leaders by standing around and doing nothing but accepting the bribes and looking the other way while mass murder is committed and using the piss poor excuse of "Sovereignty" as an excuse.

I was and am For the war in Iraq. I would have been for it had Clinton done it, or even if France, Germany or even sweet little ol Canada done it.

 But they didn't, and lets face it, they didn't have the balls, the heart or the stomach for it.

They, France and Germany in particular would have been more then happy to continue profiting from the Oil for food Scam and giving nothing more then a nod and a wink to the utter butchery he was committing on his own people, and would have eventually been more then willing to sell Saddam the weaponry he desired.

And if we were being honest. The leaders of these countries are really mad at the US for disturbing their gravy train.
And like the babies they are, they got upset when the tit ran dry and are now throwing their current temper tantrum.

and that's what it REALLY boils down to

Oddly enough these very same counties Im sure will be more then willing to profit from the rebuilding efforts its going to take.

In short you don't have the balls to do any of the bleeding to do what's right but you'll have more then enough balls to accept the profits from the contracts that will eventually be awarded.

And using "sovereignty" as an excuse to justify allowing a maniac to butcher his own people is a piss poor one at that.
As the saying goes "All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing"

this reeks of the same kind of mentality that people have who watch a murder being committed on the street yet saying and doing nothing because they "didn't want to get involved"

I'd rather follow a stupid leader who has the courage to get involved then be part of a nation who disgracefully would rather stand around and do nothing but let it happen
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 08:59:13 PM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2004, 09:10:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo


"...European Union, a new kind of state in which the member nations have handed over much of their sovereignty to a transcontinental government


See now this is exactly my point.

Not really meaning to "pick on" the French over this but its true.

Think about it. which French government is going to be willing to do this unless IT is the one in charge?

France will never be willing to hand over any part of  its sovereignty to anyone other then a French leader.

As much as I hate to admit it, is an admirable quality
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline scout

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2004, 09:48:48 PM »
A comment on the 'French and Germans will rule'.

When (if) Turkey joins predicted in 20 year it will be the most populous and therefore will have the most seats in the european parliment.

Offline NUKE

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2004, 10:05:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by scout
A comment on the 'French and Germans will rule'.

When (if) Turkey joins predicted in 20 year it will be the most populous and therefore will have the most seats in the european parliment.


The whole thing is a big mess imo.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2004, 10:32:04 PM »
Government is the authoritative allocation of values.  Government derives its power from two key sources: authority and legitimacy.

Authority comes from the ability of government to enforce its decisions on how to allocate values.  It does this through a legal system and through the threat of imprisonment or force against those who deny the government's authority.  Legitimacy comes from the government's citizens seeing those decisions as binding, legal, and acceptable even if they might disagree with them.

Can we honesty say that the EU right now fits the definition of a cohesive "government?"  Will it ever?  Certainly it is a formidable economic bloc -- the wealthiest in the world -- but without a way to authoritatively allocate that wealth toward goals consistent with a common EU world view, it does not represent a polar anything.  It does not represent the sum of its parts... yet.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Saintaw

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2004, 01:21:14 AM »
What? None of you w*nkers have mentioned bad teeth and hairy armpits yet? I'm surprised!

Quote

I ask this in all honesty... can Europeans on this board truly envision a day where a unified EU governmental body supersedes the power of the individual countries? Will this body alone determine if the EU goes to war regardless of the wishes of its constituents? If the EU decided to send EU troops comprised of all member nations into Iraq, would EU member nations support this action despite fundamentally disagreeing with it?


It will not happen. Too many different cultures & way of living. (for a longer period of time your country ever existed) ... oh wait, how did you deal with the older local population again? right...

The aim is not to have one country, but to equalise the economy. No one ever mentioned a "one country". I can dig out the EU constitution draft at work if you like. (I work at the European Commission)

Yuropeans should just all become luxemburgish, that'd settle it, and everything would be "tip top".
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 01:23:24 AM by Saintaw »
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline straffo

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2004, 01:38:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hajo
Straffo

The United States is made up of people from more then 52 different counties as you know.  We do have our problems, and believe me I am rooting for the Euro Union.  If it works, hopefully more stability will be realized not only for Europe but for the rest of the world as well.  Hopefully they won't keep shooting one another in the foot.


Quite right :)
But the formation of the USA is different than the EU formation , the  EU is a political process country.

It would be like accepting in the USA Canada and Mexico for example as they are,not accepting individual in the USA.
It's different IMO :)

Offline Yeager

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2004, 01:57:25 AM »
Fear the euro.  Bottom line, they are as corrupt a bunch as ever was.  What comes around goes around and if euro ever has a rising sun then surely their sun will set.

euro
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Offline Saintaw

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2004, 03:00:14 AM »
DMF, if you have some spare time to read it all, you can always look for the line where the EU consitution states the aim is to build a "unique country". I found no such reference.

EU constitution draft
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline Nilsen

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2004, 03:04:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Fear the euro.  Bottom line, they are as corrupt a bunch as ever was.  What comes around goes around and if euro ever has a rising sun then surely their sun will set.

euro


oh my

Offline wipass

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2004, 04:33:49 AM »
Simple fact is that Germany and France have their own interests at heart, not a United Europe. Germany and France have consistently broken budget agreements and  have not been punished and nor they will be.

The creation of a United Europe is a method to simply put a brake on the United States, to creat a rival Superpower and to dilute its influence in the world.  Germany and France are the driving force behind this rationale.

The allocation of votes to member states is not governed by the size of the population,

Holland has 13 votes for a population of 16 million

UK has 29 votes for  for a population of 60 million

Germany 29 votes for a population of 80 million

Spain has 27 votes for a population of 40 million

So.... Turkey can expect few votes regardless of population size, they are coming to the club too late.

In my opinion, the USA should worry more about their southern neighbour taking them over  ;)

wipass

Offline Nilsen

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2004, 04:46:25 AM »
oops.. i bet we would almost owe the EU a vote then if we joined.... maybe we would get one if Brussels is in a good mood :D

Offline wipass

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2004, 04:47:55 AM »
nilsen,

you can have some of our votes, nobody takes any notice of us anyway  :D

wipass

Offline Momus--

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2004, 04:53:02 AM »
I find it ironic that certain americans are so keen to remind the rest of the world about the sacrifices of their previous generations and are yet equally as eager to denigrate the european project which was founded on the ashes of the conflict that they so frequently allude to. A project that as much now as in its inception is intended to bring reconciliation instead of strife to the continent and eliminate the militarism to which so many americans, as we are so frequently reminded, were sacrificed.

Offline Wilfrid

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Congrats, United States of Europe!
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2004, 05:25:37 AM »
Nilsen, every time you quote Yeager you make his inane drivel visible for those of us who put him on 'ignore' long ago.

Please desist, sir!