Author Topic: Related to combat flight sims, pure insanity  (Read 1464 times)

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2004, 11:52:47 AM »
It's not the latter, the planes were going to be released for free and Oleg's next project is BoB which the publisher (UBI) is still going to publish.
-SW

Offline Furious

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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2004, 11:56:42 AM »
My favorite quote from the link you posted AKSWulfe:

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I'm sorry, but how f*cking typical of US companies and their money grabbing poxy mindset...

...Maybe Al Queda should have targeted the supreme court instead, waste a few of these salamanders...

Tony



LOL!!  Over a video game.   And noone has called him on it.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2004, 12:11:57 PM »
Oleg apparently made a cryptic post that confirms there is some sort of real problem. As some people at SimHQ have rightfully pointed out, there aren't enough details yet to know if Oleg somehow misused a trademark and was uncooperative or if it's the start of some general grab for licensing fees or something else entirely.

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Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.


Please don't give corporate leadership too much credit. PR, sales and marketing, legal, etc. are all different disciplines. Most leadership does not come from a PR background (PR is a support function) and the leadership may not appreciate PR, the specifics of this gaming market, the level of involvement of the player base, or even the corporation’s own history or have any respect for that history. Fortunately, it's hard to imagine that flight sim development will go easy into the night. The vulnerabilities from a PR perspective include:

* David vs. Goliath - media likes these stories, corporations will not benefit.

* Frivolous lawsuit - again topical. Whether truly frivolous or not, worthy of editorial coverage and again not likely favorable. It also reflects a tactic mostly associated with failing tech companies. Do you really want to be seen in that light?

* Trademark/copyright - a hot topic for business editors and people like the Wall Street Journal so you can get some press, especially true given the exotic nature of trademarks in question. The business readership are your prime potential investors as well. What’s interesting is that McDonalds can sue Joe MacDonald who sets up a Mac Donald Hamburger stand. But, Joe is selling a competing product that can actually take sales away from the McDonalds franchise down the street. There are obvious difference her and significant differences even with the arguments that can be made for NASCAR and the NFL, which are ongoing enterprises that draw people to a product because of the brand name. Here, with the exception of a core element, many players don’t know a Vought from a Grumman from a Lagg when they first start playing. I think there are also potential 1st amendment issues at work, certainly with documentaries but perhaps with the educational role these games play. IMO. Still, a good topic that many editors would devote resources to cover.

* Opportunities to discuss the near monopoly power these huge merge corporations have, and extend that conversation into their current products and cost overruns, etc.

In a worst case scenario, the licensing returns from this niche market would likely be minimal (unless Microsoft moves in, pays a big fee to see CFS as the only player in the market). The community would be very active, and whether the law is on the corporate side or not, the spin battle is on the side of the small developers. The story will get coverage, the coverage will likely be sympathetic to the community, and eventually the bad press should outweigh any potential benefits.

It’s mind numbing that these companies don’t use their resources to be proactive with the community (while ensuring that the appropriate are added), generate good press, remind the world of their roles as pillars of freedom (using the gaming medium) etc. But, even if the PR person pushed the proper approach it doesn’t mean that the message was appreciated or will be (again if a worst case scenario) until the bad press starts developing. Then it’s a cost/benefit decision.

Charon.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2004, 12:17:19 PM by Charon »

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2004, 12:56:16 PM »
Here's the latest from Oleg Maddox:

Hi,
Rumors just partially right. nd in some way completely wrong
1) 1C was releasing add-ons as well in the past separatelly of Ubisoft in Russia.
It was released already 3 (or 4) add-ons with the static campaigns only for
Russian market and there was one of them a huge hit ("The roads of the war". After this add-on that was created by two guys one became a member of our team). However such add-ons didn't make Russian version incompatible online with the non-russian language versions. We are personally almost not involved in developemtn of them.
2) We are in a great hope that these planned add-ons will meet western market as well by one of the
ways and almost simultaniosly with the Russian. It will depends of many
factors that are out of our own control.
3) We will be way more busy with the new sim development. So these add-ons
will make third party with the guys that are trained well here in Moscow using our tools. So
from us it will be relatively minimal investment of the work that to make
final tunings and programming and to do not stop any developments of new
sim (BoB).
4) We can't sell ourselves on western market any additions, etc for the the
Il-2 series without agreement with Ubisoft. So they should decide what to
do if there will be such add-ons ready (localised at lest for English). Unfortunatelly usually such small add-ons are absolutley non-profitable in the west....
5) These add-on(s) contains only Russian planes and maps. Most of them are experimental prop+jet (such as existed and tested La-7R 1944, Yak-3R 1944, MiG-13 1945, etc, for which we have enough info that to model) and jet planes (say unreleased LaGG-3RD-1 1941-42, that looks like Yak-15). One of them MiG-9, which was never modelled in any sim. All is limited to 1946 year as we was agreed long time ago even with third party.
Also maps which are planned for these add-ons ar Ukraine and the area of East for 1945 invation of Russian troops in the war against Japan. For this if all will be Ok in time, ordered IL-10
6) As it known alredy for public by the leaked info, currently we will not develop or accept from third party any planes owned by Nothrop (Grumman, Vough, Republic). Even the one that we did already for free add-on... No comments. However it doesn't means that we really wont to model them now or in future.... Sorry can't tell you more curently.
7) Other planes - still possible. The limits are the same - they should be done without technology bugs. Such bug limit us in time and we ae unable to rework third party models as it was in the past (just 4 guys in the world doing currently 3D models for our sim with no bugs... Sorry)
8) the maps of Murmansk and Kurland (for use of NN as well) for a merged install will be available for free when its done finally.
Hope I answer for all possible questions.

-SW

Offline spitfiremkv

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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2004, 03:20:11 PM »
hehe here's another one.

warrior fs2004 crash

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2004, 03:49:43 PM »
the light of reason cometh.

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2004, 05:30:24 PM »
Sounds like a bunch of BS. That guys spelling is horrible.

Offline takeda

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« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2004, 05:36:47 PM »
I spell better than the average english native speaker... therefore everything I say must be true. :rolleyes:

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2004, 06:00:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by takeda
I spell better than the average english native speaker... therefore everything I say must be true. :rolleyes:


you probably blow a better goat... what does that say.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline -MZ-

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« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2004, 07:23:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charon

Please don't give corporate leadership too much credit. PR, sales and marketing, legal, etc. are all different disciplines.


I don't give them credit for using common sense, but legally I am still wondering.

Aside from whatever ludicrous time limit that Congress has given to copyright owners, there has to be some other legal criteria that allows things to slip into the public domain.  Can you go 50 years without enforcing a copyright and then turn around and decide to?  

I am also having difficulty understanding how these games become a money loss for Northrop, or somehow does damage to their reputation.  Perhaps these games makes the company feel that their copyright has been 'diluted', but it is too late for that and this is not likely affect Northrop's sales of hellcats and thunderbolts.

Sickboy, you reading this?

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2004, 07:38:53 PM »
No one's looking at this in any positive light....

Wouldn't it be great to stop 90% of the Luftwhiner/farmboi BS by liscensing the "official" Daimler Benz or Supermarine data set?

Could it be that these companies could see money in maintaining and releasing their archives commercialy? That it could lead to aero companies seeing "old stuff" as a resource and preserving it?


Could it not actualy be a help to start ups such as HTC  was only a few years ago, to be able to go to Grumman and "buy" the complete "F41-c" package; for instance; freeing up thousands of man hours of research and allowing them to concentrate on programming and game design?

It's one more sign that online gaming is being taken seriously by the real world and that's not a bad thing.

I think there's more than one take on this; and I'm surprised at the kneejerk reactions being shown.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2004, 08:31:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -MZ-

Sickboy, you reading this?


Yeah, I'm reading it and following this, but I don't think that there's enough information to warrent a comment at this point. I agree with what you've said about laches and the public domain, although I don't know the specific law in question. Talk to me in a year :)

Either way, I cant even hazard a guess as to what the issue in question is.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.