Author Topic: ACLU: Did you know....  (Read 1878 times)

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2004, 07:31:26 AM »
How about a link to the full story.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2004, 07:40:17 AM »
I think what he posted pretty much sums it up SOB.

ACLU members are concerned about abuse of privacy rights in general.

ACLU members are concerned about abuse of privacy rights within their organization.

Rip believes that this constitutes a double standard.

Offline DrDea

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3341
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2004, 08:50:18 AM »
Ya know maby the good old ACLU has political overtones here.Well...of course they do.I can see the double standard and from some of the crap cases they have jumped on its like watching Jessy Jackson pick and choose what hes going to embarress himself over next.The ACLU used to mean something.Now there just like the UN.A bunch of overinflated self important jagoffs.
The Flying Circus.Were just like you.Only prettier.

FSO 334 Flying Eagles. Fencers Heros.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2004, 10:01:12 AM »
suave... that is it exactly... their way of prioritizing things makes them seem to be a joke with an agenda.  

They seem to use what many of us would call "live and let live" things and "who cares" and "leave em alone and let em have their fun" stuff into outrages that need to go to the court system.  They seem to be particularly angry with christians.  I don't see christians as much of a threat... I don't see a nativity scene as much of a threat or saying "godbless" when someone sneezes..

They seem to be pretty silent about the second amendment.   They have no official interpretation of it yet they seem to be all knowing on some of the others...  

Some of the things they do are ment to harm groups like the boy scouts.   Anyone with any sense knows that it is not a good idea to have a gay scout leader... no better idea than say straight men be girls scout leaders.  

This group has been around forever yet I very rarely see them using their energies to improve things.    How is destroyuing the boy scouts gonna make this a better place for instance?

lazs

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2004, 10:22:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
How about a link to the full story.


Feel free to discount the story considering its the New York Times.

here
« Last Edit: December 19, 2004, 10:25:35 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline weaselsan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1147
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2004, 10:52:07 AM »
America's Communist Lawyers

The ACLU's holy war against the Boy Scouts, the LA County Official Seal (containing a tiny Cross), holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas -- and even the Constitution itself -- has unmasked the ACLU as a tyrant less interested in civil rights than imposing judicial restraints that amount to suppression of majority rights by a tiny minority.

The ACLU claims to be an unbiased, “neither conservative or liberal” organization devoted exclusively to protecting the civil liberties of all Americans. But their record proves just the opposite.

ACLU Founder Roger Baldwin admitted as much, saying for the record that; “Civil liberties, like democracy, are useful only as tools for social change.”


Although they claim to defend constitutional rights, they don’t even believe in the document as written. They say that, “The Constitution as originally conceived was deeply flawed.” They even go so far as to brag, “The ACLU was the missing ingredient that made our constitutional system finally work.”


Roger Baldwin was a student of communist Emma Goldman who tutored him in subversive ideology of Lenin, together with secular humanism. He claimed Emma as “one of the chief inspirations of his life”.


During World War 1 Baldwin worked in the Bureau of Conscientious Objectors, a division of AUAM, to help draft dodgers with resistance and provide legal and financial aid.


This resulted in controversy and Baldwin renamed the organization The Civil Liberties Bureau to avoid some of the flack. Roger refused to tone down his liberal talk and the AUAM sought a split, which resulted in the bureau renaming again; The National Civil Liberties Bureau.


One paper Baldwin wrote for the Bureau was called “unmailable” by the Post Office because of “radical and subversive views” which resulted in a FBI raid on their offices. Shortly thereafter he was drafted and upon resisting and openly spouting social reform propaganda, was imprisoned for a year.


In 1920 he moved his offices in with the Communist Party’s paper, New Masses and renamed the group a final time to the ACLU. He developed many ties with the communist movement and even wrote a book, "Liberty Under the Soviets", which bragged about the “liberty won for anti-religion”.


Baldwin admitted in his book; "I joined. I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted…”


The ACLU was founded at a party attended by Socialist Party notable Norman Thomas, future Communist Party chairman Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, and Soviet agent Agnes Smedley.


In 1920, Rev. Harry Ward, the 'Red Dean' of the Union Theological Seminary was Chairman, Baldwin was director, and Communist publisher Louis Budenz, who would later go on to testify against Communism, director of publicity.


Other Communist and radical founders included William Z. Foster, author of “Toward Soviet America,” Harold J. Laski, Morris Hilquit, A.J.Muste, Scott Nearing, Eugene V. Debs, and John Dewey.


The 1930’s membership would include such radicals and change agents as Vito Marcantonio, Haywood Broun, Corliss Lamont, and Bishop G. Bromley Oxnan.


The 1940’s roll would include George S. Counts, Norman Cousins, Melvyn Douglas, Robert M. Hutchins, and Freda Kirchwey.


Most prominent American luminaries of the left were, and are, members of the ACLU.


On January 16, 1981, President Jimmy Carter awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to ACLU founder Roger Nash Baldwin, calling him 'a champion of human and civil rights.'


Under the guise of 'protecting American civil rights', Baldwin's ACLU has sued to;

- Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

- Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

- Remove all military chaplains.

- Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

- Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

- Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

- Remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance

- Deny federal funding for Boy Scouts until they admit gays and atheists

The ACLU championed the gay rights movement and Roe v. Wade. In 1977, the ACLU created its "Reproductive Freedom Project" that, over the next 16 years, utilized 17 full-time employees and a budget of $2 million.

In 1986 the ACLU created its "Lesbian and Gay Rights" project.

Some other causes adopted by the ACLU include the rights of AIDS patients to keep their diseases confidential and denying freedom of worship in public places.

In 1986, 5th grade teacher Kenneth Roberts was ordered, following an ACLU suit, to remove his Bible from his classroom. (In 2001, it sued the Anahein public school system for refusing to put pro-homosexual propaganda in the district's high school libraries.)

In 1988, it barred a doctor from telling a Kansas man's former wife that her ex-husband had tested positive for AIDS. In the words of the director of the ACLU's Privacy and Technology Project, "The benefits of confidentiality outweigh the possibility that somebody may be injured."

In 1997, the ACLU convinced the Supreme Court to protect the rights of pornographers on the Internet - including the right to show their images to children.

In May 2000, Arizona Governor Jane Hull issued a proclamation celebrating the birth of Buddha. An ACLU spokesperson said, "Although we may think proclamations are inappropriate, they may not violate the Constitution."

(But two years earlier, when Governor Hull issued a proclamation declaring a "Bible Week," the ACLU sued, claiming a violation of the so-called "separation of church and state.")

Among the ACLU's pantheon of victories are cases involving the defense of Communists, anarchists, Ku Klux Klansmen, and those who sought to overthrow American government.

In order for the ACLU to tear down constitutional barriers to governmental power, they must extinguish America's fundamental belief in God, since such a belief is an essential denial of the supreme power of government.

According to the Declaration of Independence, rights come from God, not government. When God's presence in the American mindset ceases, however, people no longer look to God as the grantor of rights but to government.


Therefore, the ACLU argues that the more power the government has, the better off the people under it are. If one looks at the history of the Soviet Union and any other Communist country, one will be apt to find Communist leaders who predicated their form of government on atheism and a secular state religion.


The ACLU has been so successful that even the Declaration of Independence can be interpreted as unconstitutional, if the argument is framed properly.


A San Franscisco suburban teacher was forbidden to give out copies of the Declaration of Independence to his students by the school's principal, Patricia Vidmar, because it refers to God. Principal Vidmar has also required that Mr. Williams clear all his lessons first with her.


This has led to other materials that refer to God or Christianity being rejected, such as George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists," and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."


The Barna Research Group found in a recent poll that 40% of all Americans claimed to have read the Bible in the week preceding the poll. Fully 80% admitted to praying to God in the previous week, while 83% said that religion had 'changed their behavior'.


Two-thirds of Americans claimed they attend church at least once a month. Interestingly, more Americans believe in God than Israelis do. The National Opinion Research Center found that 62.8% of Americans believe in God, as compared with only 43% of Israelis.


Given these numbers, how can it be that the ACLU can impose such a 'through the looking-glass' worldview on the majority of Americans?


In the natural, there are plenty of reasons; the careful installation of anti-Christian activists judges, ninety years of brainwashing, the imposition of secular humanism as America's state religion, and the domination of professions like the law and teaching by secularists and homosexual activists.

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2004, 11:12:35 AM »
I've never heard of the ACLU doing anything that I disagreed with, maybe some of you could provide some examples.

It's just usually the people I meet in real life that have a beef with the aclu are flakes who want organized prayer in public schools and think that the kkk flag should stay on the capital of SC, or that nazis and bolsheviks should all be arrested etc.

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2004, 11:37:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
It's just usually the people I meet in real life that have a beef with the aclu are flakes who want organized prayer in public schools and think that the kkk flag should stay on the capital of SC, or that nazis and bolsheviks should all be arrested etc.


You've never met a Boy Scout?

Boy Scout Legal Issues
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 11:49:55 AM »
If they're supported by the DoD they should not require their members to take an oath to God. So I agree with the ACLU on that.

I was a boyscout four a couple years, but we weren't required to take any oaths or wear uniforms, in fact none of us even had a uniform. The boyscouts I was in wasn't really the youth paramilitary organisation that it may be in other parts of the country. Our leader was a teacher at our school, and being former SF he had very low tolerance for stupidity and pomp like uniforms and formal rank and religous oaths.

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2004, 12:03:11 PM »
You were a Boy Scout but did not memorize the Boy Scout Law, Oath or Motto?  Did you learn about Baden Powell? Why were you a Boy Scout?

It's not just the DoD issue that the link takes you to.  

The scouts were not allowed a presence in Balboa Park in San Diego because the city believed that allowing a presence in the park was tantamount to municipal support for scouting activities.  

Separation of Church and state was invoked and a city named after a catholic saint told the scouts to go elsewhere.  

It used to be that achieving the level of Eagle Scout was an honor, but it seems that we are on the way to making it disreputable.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2004, 12:20:19 PM »
I was a scout because I liked hanging out with my friends and going camping.

I just read the link about the boyscouts not being able to use military bases. That's good, it makes them a legitimate private organisation. So they're free to be as pro god and anti-gay as they want. But at the same time they shouldn't expect any municipal support either now.

The aclu also doesn't have any case against them now that they are a private club, it's within their legal rights to be as exlusive as they wish.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6143
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2004, 12:32:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
I was a scout because I liked hanging out with my friends and going camping.

I just read the link about the boyscouts not being able to use military bases. That's good, it makes them a legitimate private organisation. So they're free to be as pro god and anti-gay as they want. But at the same time they shouldn't expect any municipal support either now.

The aclu also doesn't have any case against them now that they are a private club, it's within their legal rights to be as exlusive as they wish.


The Boy Scouts always were a private club. Doesnt matter who funds and or supports them they were (and are) a private club.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2004, 12:39:10 PM »
Well if a diest, anti gay organization is getting support from the federal govt. as the boyscouts were, that is wrong.

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2004, 12:41:06 PM »
The Veteran's of Foreign Wars is a legitimate private organization and I would venture a guess that they are welcomed on DoD property.

Many scout troops were sponsored by DoD bases because the servicemen had children of the age that wanted their kids to experience scouting.  

Having a group of servicemen's children get together to tie knots, whittle, and go camping didn't threaten the republic.  The ACLU sued to keep this from happening because....  if this was the highest priority they could come up with it seems our country must be in pretty good shape civil rights-wise.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
ACLU: Did you know....
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2004, 12:43:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You were a Boy Scout but did not memorize the Boy Scout Law, Oath or Motto?  Did you learn about Baden Powell? Why were you a Boy Scout?

It's not just the DoD issue that the link takes you to.  

The scouts were not allowed a presence in Balboa Park in San Diego because the city believed that allowing a presence in the park was tantamount to municipal support for scouting activities.  

Separation of Church and state was invoked and a city named after a catholic saint told the scouts to go elsewhere.  

It used to be that achieving the level of Eagle Scout was an honor, but it seems that we are on the way to making it disreputable.


I get really tired of hearing this term.  It is not mentioned ONCE in our constitution

"Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion"

Well if a city or the Fed. Govt wants to support the boy scouts they are not respecting the establishment of religious they are supporting the Boy Scouts.  If the City/Fed. supports other programs indescriminatly there is no problem and religion is not seeping into Govt.

AND

As far as DoD support goes.  We just recieved an all hands message from the SecDef that we can still play host to scouts on DOD installations BUT the bases cannot provide them with any special funding or special support

IE Unit members that help out or give tours have to be all voluntary.  We just had a scout tour last week AND our base has an actual "scout camp" on post.