Rumsfeld's Questioner Wrong About Unit's Armor

[NUKE]

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/12/19/102144.shtml

The reporter who managed to get a National Guardsman serving in Iraq to question Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld about why his unit's vehicles lacked sufficient armor coached the soldier using false information.

In fact, by the time Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter Edward Lee Pitts rehearsed Spc. Thomas "Jerry" Wilson on what to say to Rumsfeld, the Pentagon had already up-armored 97 percent of the vehicles in Thomas' 278th Regimental Combat Team, senior members of the Army's combat systems development and acquisition team said Thursday.

Further undermining the premise of Pitts' question, orders to up-armor the last 20 of the 278th's 830 vehicles were already in the pipeline when he engineered the bogus inquiry.
According to the Maryville, Tenn., Daily Times - a rival to Pitts' paper - Army Maj. Gen. Stephen Speakes and Army Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sorenson said during last week's Pentagon briefing that routine pre-deployment preparations before proceeding to Iraq included adding protective armor plates to the last 20 vehicles of the Tennessee-based 278th Regimental Combat Team's 830 vehicles.

"When the question was asked, 20 vehicles remained to be up-armored at that point," Gen. Speakes said, in comments completely ignored by the major media.

"We completed those 20 vehicles in the next day," he said. "In other words, we completed all the armoring within 24 hours of the time the question was asked," Gen. Speakes added.

Makes me wonder what the hell people in the media are up to. Jokers.

[Lizking]

That is the modern media's mdus operandi:

They don't report the news, they create it, andt hey do not bother to make certain of their facts, aware that in the long run, all that matters is the accusation, not the facts.

[rpm]

Perhaps it was because hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles in units before them were doing exactly that. Being up armored with salvaged scrap from landfills. Before you go screaming "No they did'nt" watch "Off to War".

[Lizking]

My gut tells me that even with the armor upgrade, those cats are doing "field mods" regardless, RPM.

[rpm]

I agree. If I were there I'd be strapping sandbags and steel on anything I rode in. But the point was we were/are sending National Guard units with Korean and Vietnam era trucks that had zero armor. If I had not seen troops doing it in "Off to War" I would probably think the whole thing was BS myself. Apparently it was more than just one unit of the Arkansas National Guard that had to do this. BTW, the newest truck they had was built in 1964. I'm sure regular army units are much better prepared and equipted than the Guard units are. The Guard units were equipted to help flood and other natural disaster victims, not fight in Iraq. That is their words, not mine. The Guard had to make do with what they had and adapt to the threat they faced. Too bad they did'nt get the equiptment they needed before now. Remember this was a group of Guardsmen he was addressing, not a regular Army unit.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by NUKE
[Makes me wonder what the hell people in the media are up to. Jokers.

...he said posting a story from the media...

[rpm]

Thrawn, newsmax is an approved propagan...err news outlet.

[Toad]

Originally posted by rpm
The Guard had to make do with what they had and adapt to the threat they faced. Too bad they did'nt get the equiptment they needed before now.

When in our entire history has the Army NG been completely equipped with front-line equipment when they were initially called up? Which war was that?

There's no denying the Pentagon didn't plan for this. But we've NEVER had an Army NG that was fully equipped to match the Regulars. Especially after the "peace dividend".

[rpm]

Originally posted by Toad
When in our entire history has the Army NG been completely equipped with front-line equipment when they were initially called up? Which war was that?

There's no denying the Pentagon didn't plan for this. But we've NEVER had an Army NG that was fully equipped to match the Regulars. Especially after the "peace dividend".

Where did I ever say they were ever fully equipted? It seems we do agree that they were'nt equipted for the job handed to them. You might also explain to me why the Army court-martialed, imprisoned and dishonorably discharged the NG commander that salvaged abandoned equiptment to complete their mission.

[Maverick]

RPM,
They did that because they attempted to cover up the "acquisition" of the equipment. Had they not done that there wouldn't have been much of a problem with it. Scrounginig has been a military art for centuries. When you try to cook the books by covering ID numbers and lie about where and when you got the equipment that was not on your TO&E (table of organization and equipment) you will get your butt handed to you on a sling. My question about all of this is simply why ONLY are Guard units being examined like that? I'd be willing to bet that there are quite a few regular units doing similar activities. I wonder if any of them will be held just as acountable.

[rpm]

Yeah, let's not pi** off the accountants in order to accomplish a critical mission. Luckily SOMEBODY is trying to do something about it. Maj. Klaus and CWO Birt should be personally thanked by President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld instead of what happened to them. She was an outstanding commander that did what was nessessary to complete her mission. They procecuted them as if they were stealing the equiptment for personal gain.

[Gixer]

How is the US army morale these days amongst National Guard? I hear immigration numbers to Canada are up quite alot  from norm.




...-Gixer

[lazs2]

none going to new zealand tho that I know of... except to lay on the beach and trade beads with the natives.

lazs

[Airhead]

Speaking of the National Guard, I made a statement weeks ago that was ignored here that bears repeating.

For a Guardsman to get disabled in Iraq is an economic death sentance, in many cases. As "part time" soldiers they don't qualify for a Veterans' disability pension, and if their disability is severe enough they can't qualify for Workman's Comp cause it wasn't an on the job industry. Best they can get is a Social Security disability pension, and that takes 24 months before they get their first check.

You would think on a Board that is so pro Iraq War, as this one is. it would deserve a comment- I guess that is just one of those things, like "drafting" DD civies to serve in Iraq, that "good" patriots don't talk about.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Lizking
My gut tells me that even with the armor upgrade, those cats are doing "field mods" regardless, RPM.

I was watching a specail on the History channel on Torpedoes.  In WWII the sub crews would disassemble the torps and jerry-rig them to detonate, the magnetic portion wasn't functioning due to a defect.  

IIRC, a US sub fired 6 torps at a Cruiser w/in 2000 yards, only one detonated, they could hear the other 5 hit, but, nothing.

Karaya

PS - Liberals will stop at NOTHING to turn this Gulf Campaign into another "Vietnam". Makes me sick to my stomach, and I'm only 31.