Author Topic: Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'  (Read 907 times)

Offline Sundowner

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« on: December 24, 2004, 01:45:19 AM »
Sorry for the cut & paste.......

Inflicting pain on 'griefers'

By David Becker
http://news.com.com/Inflicting+pain+on+griefers/2100-1043_3-5488403.html

Story last modified Mon Dec 13 10:00:00 PST 2004



As online-game companies court new and wider audiences, many are running into an old problem: "griefers," a small but seemingly irradicable set of players who want nothing more than to murder, loot and otherwise frustrate the heck out of everyone else.

Social miscreants can do more than ruin the game for better-behaved competitors. They can hurt game companies' bottom line by driving away customers and burning up support lines. Problems related to grief players often account for 25 percent or more of customer service calls, according to game publishers.

Now an increasing number of companies are fighting back, using a combination of technology, sociology and psychology to limit griefer damage. Success could be important to the industry's growth, as companies seek to expand beyond the audience of hard-core players to more casual customers, many of whom are unlikely to tolerate bad experiences for long.
News.context

What's new:
An increasing number of game companies are fighting griefer damage using a combination of technology, sociology and psychology.

Bottom line:
As game companies seek to expand beyond hard-core players to more casual customers, stopping troublemakers could have a marked impact on their bottom line.

More stories on online gamers

"A couple of people causing problems can really wreck the game for everybody else," said David Cole, president of research company DFC Intelligence. "I think it's one of the biggest business concerns you have running an online game."

The stakes are big. According to research firm Yankee Group, multiplayer online games had 2.4 million U.S. subscribers and generated $209 million in revenue last year. That's expected to grow to 5.2 million subscribers and $556 million in revenue by 2008.

Standing in the way of such growth are players such as "Evangeline," a "Sims Online" player who became an emblem of the griefer mentality when she described her techniques and motivation in an interview published late last year by online forum The Second Life Herald, formerly known as Alphaville Herald.

Evangeline said she liked to torture new players ("newbies") by luring them into a house specifically designed to trap and torture them. "Newbies are so disgusting...they're the bane of my Sim life," she said. "I'll cage (you) like an animal and have people laugh at (you)."

Ganging up on newbies is typical griefer behavior in games with large multiplayer universes, such as "Sims Online" or "EverQuest."

In games such as "EverQuest" that include player-vs.-player combat, griefers typically lure new players into hidden areas, then kill them and loot their corpses for valuable in-game goods. One of the most common griefer tactics is to camp out at "spawn spots"--locations where characters enter the game world after dying or logging off--and attack arriving players the second they materialize.

Dissecting griefer dysfunction
Such behavior may not be strictly against the rules of the game, but it violates the social contract between players and can quickly send new players packing for the real world.

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression," said Cameron Ferroni, general manager for Microsoft's Xbox Live online-game service, recalling old Head & Shoulders commercials.

John Suler, a psychologist at Rider University in Lawrenceville, N.J., has studied deviant behavior in online game communities and found that griefers fall into two basic camps.

"Some of them are kind of antisocial types, where their cause is to fight the authority figure," Suler said. "They take more pleasure in the grief they cause for the company that runs the game. That may stem back to difficult relations with parents and authority figures."

For the other basic type of griefer, it's personal.

"Sometimes it's just a matter of wanting to hurt other people, cause grief for them," Suler said. "It might be a form of displacement for people who have been victimized in other areas of their life. They cope by turning the passive into the active: 'Now I'm the person who victimizes other people.'"

Dealing with both types may start with mom's advice about bullies: Ignore them, and they'll go away. "They want attention," Suler said, "so if you ignore them, they may give up."

Mitigating damage
Sony Online Entertainment, publisher of "EverQuest" and the newer "Star Wars Galaxies," relies heavily on social structures to mitigate griefer damage, said George Scotto, vice president of customer service.

With tens of thousands of players involved in each game daily, Sony can't police everything, Scotto said. Thus, he added, much of the work of keeping games clean and fun falls to fellow players. "EverQuest" players usually join "guilds," in-game communities where failure to play nice will get you booted out.

"With 'EverQuest,' you have six-year span where the player base has built up a community," Scotto said. "Players know each other and watch out for each other. The guilds have a good neighborhood-watch effect."
"If one player can't harm another player in a game, you can't really have griefing."
--Jack Emmert, "City of Heroes" designer

"Star Wars Galaxies," which recently marked its one-year anniversary, has been more of a challenge, Scotto said, with Sony having to do more to educate players about the best way to have the kind of game experience they want.

"When 'Galaxies' launched, we had a lot of people who were new to MMOGs (massively multiplayer online games) and didn't really understand how they worked, so there was a learning curve," he said. "We try to teach players how to work out issues on their own. We have to encourage our players to do that. Our worlds are so big; we can't be everywhere all the time."

Game developer Cryptic Studios took a more hard-line approach to troublemakers in designing the hit online superhero game "City of Heroes," which pulled in nearly 200,000 subscribers in its first fourth months on the market. The game had to be accessible to casual players and newcomers to online games, said Jack Emmert, lead designer for the game. That meant limiting interactions between players solely to chat. An upcoming expansion will include an online arena for player-vs.-player battles, but the outcomes won't affect character development or assets.

"The entire game design is about getting somebody who isn't an insider into the MMOG genre and having fun as quickly as possible, and griefing would just ruin that," Emmert said. "We just eliminated that possibility. If one player can't harm another player in a game, you can't really have griefing."

Behave or get the boot
The advent of online capabilities for video game consoles has opened new frontiers in griefing. While online PC games have a preponderance of complex fantasy role-playing games such as "EverQuest," online games for the Xbox and PlayStation 2 are dominated by shooters and sports titles, including the smash football franchise "Madden NFL."

Most Madden players want a clean, realistic game of football, said Danny "Coach Dee" Palmieri, founder of the New York Ballers Club, a "Madden" fan club. Conflicts happen when straight-up players encounter punks who will exploit any glitch to squeeze out a victory.

"There are glitches in the game, so that if you position guys in certain ways, it's almost impossible to get the ball off," Palmieri said. "Most guys want to play real-life football, like they see every Sunday, so they're not going to use those glitches. Other people just manipulate it any way they can to get the win."

Publisher Electronic Arts has implemented a "fair play" system to discourage such play. But the surest way to have a clean game is to join a group such as the Ballers Club, Palmieri said.

"We have certain criteria people have to play by," he said. "If we catch you doing something cheesy, we ban you. People need to know they're going to get a fair shot."

Microsoft has employed a combination of social and technical approaches to try to keep its Xbox Live online-game service grief-free, said Microsoft's Ferroni.

The service's "friends list" feature is used extensively by most players, he said, allowing them to play only against people they know and trust. "If you don't play with strangers, you don't really have to worry about bad behavior," Ferroni said.

Microsoft has instituted a number of avenues for players to leave feedback on one other, meaning that a person can check someone's reputation before playing them. If a player gets a critical mass of bad feedback, Microsoft will ban the person from Xbox Live, a measure the company has resorted to in a few thousand cases--enough to serve as a potent deterrent.

"They're banned from the entire service--they can't just jump over to another game," Ferroni said. "These people love games, so that's the last thing they want to happen."

The upshot is that Microsoft hardly receives any support calls anymore about unfair play on Xbox Live, Ferroni said. "It's not in our top 20 issues," he said. "It really doesn't make it on our radar."
Freedom implies risk. Less freedom implies more risk.

Offline Russian

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2004, 02:54:37 AM »
Quote
EverQuest" that include player-vs.-player combat



EQ1 or 2 never had PvsP. :rolleyes:

In any ways if player gets bored, they should have some fun killing n00bs.

Offline FUNKED1

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2004, 05:11:49 AM »
Quote
"Some of them are kind of antisocial types, where their cause is to fight the authority figure," Suler said. "They take more pleasure in the grief they cause for the company that runs the game. That may stem back to difficult relations with parents and authority figures.

Check

Offline Suave

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2004, 05:29:53 AM »
I thought Fansy's escipade on the old eq pvp servers was hilarious. Besides, it's stupid to fight fair, Sun Tzu should be taught in schools here.

http://www.notacult.com/fansythefamous.htm
« Last Edit: December 24, 2004, 05:42:36 AM by Suave »

Offline wrag

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2004, 07:28:43 AM »
Does HTC's response to this type of activity make more sense now?

The I've got mine so screw you attitude?

It's just a game so get over it attitude?

Win at any cost attitude?

Tsun Tzu?  Yes I agree it should be taught in school, but it won't.  Too scary to most people.  IMHO the people in power want us dumbed down.  Been doing just that for 20 years or more.  Hey if you don't know or understand your rights, then how can you demand them?

Sure I like to win.  But I prefer learning the basic's of the system and then working within that system to meet that goal.  Nice thing is if I don't care for the system in place within an online gaming setup I don't have to play or pay within that system.  HTC is aware of that. So are many of the BIG corps.

"If people cannot learn selfcontrol, don't worry, there is always someone that's just been waiting, with anticipation, joy, and enthusiasim, for just such an excuse to do it for them."

Yes there are some that want to, and will, push the edge, and beyond, to win.  Even think it's their personel right to do so.

I get rather tired of the 5th grader attitude of beat you at any price then rub your face in it types on channel 200.

Then there is the pysch types that try to word it so you will fly their way and thus pad their ego by getting shot down.  What is often funny, or maybe sad, is they often accuse others of what they often do to others.  Ala the ... HO queen, ack hugger, runner, etc...

Been wondering ... when someone will get the idea of watching channel 200, get a location on the 5th grader type, get a group together (say 10 or 20???), and then going "jerk" hunting?  Might even create some really good fights in that area LOL.

OK here ya go ... I will HO you and I consider that a valid ACM manuver/tactic.  Didn't the man say ... "Attack, always attack...".  If I get my sight lined up for what looks like a shot, I'm shooting, I don't care what direction you're pointing.  You come at me nose to nose, I get my sight lined up, I'm shooting. Sooooo anyways,  I recall I got into a HO with someone and lost (badly LOL).  They contacted me right away and commented about it.  Something along the lines of how do you like it now?  I said NP, that I knew the risk when I went into that situation and (this IMHO is the important part) ---> I accepted those risk.  Was I upset about losing, or disappointed? YES!  BUT with myself NOT the other person.
It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline Ripsnort

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2004, 07:35:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Check


Double check!:aok

Offline Jackal1

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2004, 07:39:43 AM »
Being a Noob and gettin taken for a ride is and has been a part of any online game that I have ever played. It`s more of a Welcome Wagon  IMHO. On the other hand you always have a few , such as described in the article, that take things to extremes.
  My belief is only the people that do the "iniation" of Noobs into the game can control the extremist. In other words, the players.
  A game without a good community will never last long.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline OIO

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2004, 10:43:53 AM »
Actually, in star wars galaxies, theres one shining example of how a community can police itself. and SOE may be adapting that system in the future for widespread use.


In my server (bria) theres a jedi player that is a complete *******. He steals mone y from people, talks smack & insults others, gained notoriety for tricking and stealing a very rare and high valued item and THEN having the gall to auction it for sale on the SWG trade forums... the list goes on.

So many community members simply put a bounty on his head. Since he was a jedi he is the one character type that can open himself to 'unwanted' pvp... since there is another proffession,  the bounty hunter, that can take missions on these jedi and go hunt and kill them.

The pay for this guy's mission was average since he was not a full jedi knight... but since the community was offering 'incentives' to have him killed for what he did, almost every bounty hunter in the server went after him.

The result was inmediate. Forum became a shower of 'i killed him here's the pics to prove it' .

By the time MY bounty hunter got around to smacking this guy it had been almost 3 weeks since the 'effort' began. When i did kill his jedi the guy whined and complained about getting killed so much and how he had lost so much xp (jedi lose xp upon death and its very slow to regain it) and how he was quitting game because of it.

My screenies of his words got me not only the reward for killing him, BUT a bonus 'gift' from those he had stolen from for the screenie that had him whining and saying he was quitting.


SOE is considering expanding the bounty system so all other player classes can be hunted down if they do something 'illegal' .. illegal in the game that is .

Offline indy007

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2004, 10:54:35 AM »
People here whine about vulchers, spawn campers, suicide jabo's, but man, we have it easy.

Eve Online is just as bad as SWG. It comes down to "same time man! same time!" when doing some deals. It sucks, but it's the way you have to be.

At least AH can't have these problems. No economy, no NPCs. At the very worst, you squelch somebody and look for them in the MA.

Offline Darkish

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2004, 01:40:40 PM »
Suave,

Thank you.  That has to be one of the most entertaining reads I've happened upon in quite a while.

Fansy's sense of humour was spot on, he had me pink with giggling throughout.

GO GO GOODGUYS  :rofl

Offline Halo

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2004, 01:58:03 PM »
Good thread, Sundowner.  On-line game subscriptions may soon include:
pass or fail psychological profiling in sign-up,
airport security in sign-on,
armed hall monitors,
vigilantes,
posses,
Judge Judy justice,
torment from fellow prisoners,
and finally
Tony Soprano Associates
for any leftovers.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous

Offline Suave

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2004, 04:44:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Darkish
Suave,

Thank you.  That has to be one of the most entertaining reads I've happened upon in quite a while.

Fansy's sense of humour was spot on, he had me pink with giggling throughout.

GO GO GOODGUYS  :rofl
Here's the lyrics to a song that you'll find funny if you're a current or recovering eq addict. I tried to find the audio file of it, which is funnier, but I couldn't.

Electric Funstuff presents a story which is sad but true.

The ranger left our party in a pinch,
The fight had looked like it would be a cinch,
But the mage ran out of mana,
The cleric said manana,
and I was dead before I'd moved an inch.

See, I told ya it was a sad story.

Well can you spare some rations, cuz I sure need a drink,
I lost my stuff, I'm feeling, out of sorts,
Those trains just keep chasin,
No idea which way I'm facin',
Has anybody here seen my corpse?

I'm fuming cuz my servers down again,
those women I've been chasing are all men,
"My name's Galadriel!"
I asked one to join my side,
she just laughed until she cried and said,
Get your skill at begging up to ten.

Well can you spare some rations, cuz I sure need a drink,
I move so slow, I wish I had a horse,
It's night and I can't see,
danger in front of me,
Has anybody here seen my corpse?

"Holy Cats, we're in the banjo spawning grounds!
"Ow!
Killed my pet!
You're the tank, you kill it!
Ow!
I'm almost dead,
this is it!
sproing
good thing that guard came by."

Well everything cons red now, when I play,
what would I like my tombstone to say?
Thanks well it's been fun,
five more minutes then I'm done,
I've been sayin' that to myself since, yesterday.

"I'll be right there sugar just as soon as I kill this skeleton,
and this shadow wolf,
and this fire beetle."

Well can you spare some rations, cuz I sure need a drink,
this game will be grounds for my divorce.
The lag times can be chokin',
the quests can all be broken,
but still I keep coming back, of course
And I will surely seek you,
Next time you're on EQ,
Cuz maybe oh just maybe,
maybe oh just maybe,
maybe you might have seen my corpse.

Dang moss snake.

Offline Nash

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Re: Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2004, 04:55:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sundowner
Evangeline said she liked to torture new players ("newbies") by luring them into a house specifically designed to trap and torture them.


But what if you're down with that kind of thing.... eh? EH?

It's like.... FREE TORTURE!

The Sims, you say?

I'm signing up right now. It'll save me a bundle on bills when I cancel my membership at the local ACME Preevert Dungeon.

Grief my arse. Literally. Grief my arse. That chick is gonna be busy.

Offline Lizking

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2004, 05:07:13 PM »
EQ has always had PvP servers, and PvP arenas on every server.

Offline Drunky

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Online game COs Inflict pain on 'griefers'
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2004, 08:47:23 PM »
PC crap written because of whiners.
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