Author Topic: PT-Boats...useless? (Read 1049 times)

Janov · « **on:** December 25, 2004, 05:55:35 PM »

I used to enjoy driving PT-Boats, but lately they have become pretty useless to me.

1.) one 5 inch shell passing anywhere in the vicinity - they go boom (unrealistic!)

2.) cant aim torpedoes anymore, because after a turn they keep heading-slewing (very minutely) for minutes, so I cant check relative motion of target

3.) no good as a gun platform, especially against fighters. They rock so bad from the recoil that accurate aim is impossible - while all the planes in AH are incredibly accurate gunplatforms (unrealistic).

4.) what are the rockets for?? How do you aim them accurately?

Just some food for thought, here...

Litjan

Darkish · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2004, 06:00:17 PM »

Urchin · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2004, 06:20:53 PM »

Rockets are mostly used for rank.

You find a spawn point that is next to a dead base or factory, lob your rockets in. Repeat once a month, they and torpedos are the only things that count for "hit %" in GVs in the bottom category.

I don't think I've been in one since AH2 came out, but the 40mm on the back used to be pretty good for killing fighters.

Killing carriers with one will be pretty tough since most CV groups have more people in the 5 inch guns then they do in the air.

SlapShot · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2004, 09:44:32 AM »

while all the planes in AH are incredibly accurate gunplatforms (unrealistic)

I love when people make these kinds of statements. Like they are some authority on the subject, yet provide no proof of what they claim, nor of their expertise on the subject.

jaxxo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 26, 2004, 02:21:25 PM »

i sink cv's regularly with he from pt boat.

Lye-El · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2004, 03:30:39 PM »

And one strafing pass from a fighter and 70 foot combat vessel goes boom.

WMLute · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2004, 04:11:43 PM »

aiming torps just takes practice, and i generally aim mine in a "spread" pattern, with the cv group JUST to the edge of my screen unzoomed. (ish)

The #6 gun will kill most anything w/ wings with one hit. Learn it, and them pesky fighters will not be an issue. W/ practice you can nail 'em 3k out.

#6 gun ALSO is good to gun down the CV group (and towns). One pt can kill a cruiser easily w/ the #6 gun. Just stay out of ack range. Takes 3-4 hops to nail the flat top tho'. I generally go for the cruiser, then maybe one of the small support ships. Once they are out of the way, I will then go for the Carrier. After you've killed some of the guns on the Carrier, you can use rockets, and the other guns and get in close.

When you 1st pull on the trigger, you will get some climb on the gun. If you hold it down, it lvl's out and you can aim quite well. If you let off the trigger, you have to do it over again.

I've HIT cv's w/ the rockets, just not often. Like prev. said, they are mainly for score IMHO.

I rarely use any of the other guns in a pt.

Janov · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2004, 08:36:05 AM »

Slapshot,

I have never flown a plane with armament, but I have several hundred hours in small single and twinengine propplanes (both piston and turboprop), with several thousand hours in 737s and 747-400s. I assure you that on 95% of the flying days you will find it very difficult to impossible to put your crosshair on a single spot on the ground (like during a AH2-strafingrun, with accuracy measured in a few feet) and keep it there for more than 1/2 second, with all the vibration from airflow and engine, trimchanges from acceleration, and most important lowlevel turbulence while barreling in at 300mph+.

Litjan

SlapShot · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2004, 10:22:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Janov
Slapshot,

I have never flown a plane with armament, but I have several hundred hours in small single and twinengine propplanes (both piston and turboprop), with several thousand hours in 737s and 747-400s. I assure you that on 95% of the flying days you will find it very difficult to impossible to put your crosshair on a single spot on the ground (like during a AH2-strafingrun, with accuracy measured in a few feet) and keep it there for more than 1/2 second, with all the vibration from airflow and engine, trimchanges from acceleration, and most important lowlevel turbulence while barreling in at 300mph+.

Litjan

Well ... I have never flown a plane ergo, I have never fired from a plane either so we are even there. I can appreciate your experience in the air tho.

I have seen dozens upon dozens of guncam footage of P-51s, P-47s, etc straffing ground targets and from what I have seen, these guys had no problems destroying planes, vehicles and trains (on the move). There were more aircraft destroyed on the ground than there ever was destroyed in the air, so straffing was quite prevelant and highly successful. If the gun platform was that bad, then those numbers would not have been as high as they were nor as strickingly successful.

There are numerous WW II fighter pilots that never achieved the "ace" moniker, but were responsible for destroying many aircraft on the ground ... some in the 100s of destroyed aircraft/vehicles.

Janov · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2004, 03:26:49 PM »

Yes, I have seen those guncamfilms, too. Some were even destroying several parked aircraft in one run. Yet it doesn´t take many hits to destroy an aircraft, and even though these guys were getting very close on their runs, still many rounds miss the targets. It seemed more like a general spraying into the row of aircraft, and with several hundred rounds per minute from several barrels you will get some impressive results.
The quotes from many WW2 pilots as to the accuracy of airial (is that spelled correctly?) gunnery where along the lines of "get as close as you can, then some closer, then fire or you will miss most rounds and only alert the enemy" (even though there were some exceptionally good at longrange marksmanship).
In addition we veteran AH2-pilots have multiple times the experience of real WW2-pilots, so gunnery (especially deflection shots or adding superelevation) is that much more easier for us.

Litjan

SlapShot · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2004, 03:59:52 PM »

The point was not destruction but rather do the AH airplanes accurately portray the same type of gun platform as those that flew during WW II.

Your standpoint is that they are much easier and steadier than their RL counterparts. I believe that they do, especially when I have tried to make strafing runs on convoys and seem to have a harder time laying down a nice strafing line like those that I have seen in some P-47 guncam footage.

Take up a P-47 and go look for a supply convoy (one that is not doing 600 mph) and tell me how easy it is for you to take out all the trucks. Time yourself and tell me how long it took you to take out all the trucks. Take a guess at what percentage of hits were you landing and let me know.

Janov · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2004, 06:57:00 PM »

The question is how many bullets do I need to put into a truck to make it explode. If the task is to put like 30 rounds into a truck to disable it (which I think will not suffice in AH2) I can probably take out the whole convoy in one strafing run. The thing making it difficult here is leading the convoy for its speed, adding superelvation for bullet drop and the convergence setting. AH portrays those aspects of gunnery very well. So a barrage from a plane with wingmounted cannons looks a lot like the guncams, due to the convergence-spray and pitch changes as people hunt for the right elevation. The hits are on and all around the target. But if you take a plane like a p38 or bf110 with fuselagemounted guns then the bullets will all fall into a tiny spot when I think in reality they would disperse over a wider area.
So to return to the origin of this discussion: Most of the planes in the MA will be able to take out the PT-Boat with a short, wellaimed burst (I have done so many times myself), while the PT-Boat is rolling and swaying in the sea, having a lot of trouble to put the crosshairs on the target long enough to do some damage. If that´s the way it was in real life than its fine with me. But I think it wasn´t so (if there even where many engagements between fighterplanes and PT-Boats) or wouldn´t have been so.

Litjan

SlapShot · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2004, 09:09:39 AM »

I can probably take out the whole convoy in one strafing run

I'll bet you can't ... Take a P-47 and do it and film it ... I would love to see it.

Furball · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:32:53 AM »

PT boats? useless?!

Far from it. Most people just do not know how to use them.

Ghosth · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2004, 04:45:18 PM »

Why is it that 90% of all pt boat sorties were at night?

A PT boats were sitting ducks for airplanes. A good burst of guns set the fuel tanks on fire. Remember they were running on AV gas. With nothing between the tanks & enemy aircraft but wood it had to have happened a lot.

B PT boats were sitting ducks for anything 20mm & up shooting from a ship, ESPECIALLY 5" guns. In daylight a 5" gun could kill the pt long before the PT could shoot back. Early PT's had virtually NO armour. They relied on speed, stealth & suprise.

One thing we are missing is the ability to produce smoke. From what I've seen on PT's via the History Channel etc, we have the best of them.

Early PT's did NOT have the 37mm forward & the 40mm aft. They did have the 4 torp tupes. Later versions pulled 2 of the tubes, added the guns & used them for "barge busting" details.

Later yet the tupe launching system was changed for a simple roll off rack. That cut a LOT of weight off with its resulting increase in speed.

PT's do very well at night/low light conditions esp when several attack at once.

They don't do so well as in a single david vs goliath attack role.

PT boats are fine in AH. Although I wouldn't mind a few varients.