Author Topic: Abraham Lincoln, futurist:  (Read 1215 times)

Offline Stringer

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2004, 03:54:41 PM »
"Everybody gets a car! Everybody gets a car! Everybody gets a car!" - Oprah Winfrey, after awarding new vehicles to all 276 audience members at the taping of the premiere of the 19th season of "The Oprah Winfrey Show."

Offline oboe

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2004, 04:24:59 PM »
I agree with you that those organizations are not corporations, and I was agreeing with you to a cetain extent (the NRA and Christian right) that they have some influence on government policy.   I can't think of any government battles won recently by teachers or unions, so I can't agree with you on the influential prowess of those groups.     You brought those groups up, not me.

My concern remains industry influence on government policies.

Offline JB88

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2004, 05:07:04 PM »
from an article at reclaimdemocracy.org.



But corporate lawyers (acting as both attorneys and judges) subverted our Bill of Rights in the late 1800's by establishing the doctrine of "corporate personhood" -- the claim that corporations were intended to fully enjoy the legal status and protections created for human beings.

We believe that corporations are not persons and possess only the privileges we willfully grant them. Granting corporations the status of legal "persons" effectively rewrites the Constitution to serve corporate interests as though they were human interests. Ultimately, the doctrine of granting constitutional rights to corporations gives a thing illegitimate privilege and power that undermines our freedom and authority as citizens. While corporations are setting theagenda on issues in our Congress and courts, We the People are not; for we can never speak as loudly with our own voices as corporations can with the unlimited amplification of money.
this thread is doomed.
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Offline oboe

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2004, 09:04:20 PM »
Boy its nice to have somebody with an education behind their opinions.   (present company included, btw).  

Thanks JB88.

So does that still stand?  Corporations are recognized as persons?   Can they vote?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2004, 06:49:59 AM by oboe »

Offline Drunky

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2004, 09:19:14 PM »
Lincoln wore a top hat way before Slash ever did.  Now, THAT is forward thinking.
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Offline JB88

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2004, 07:47:41 AM »
So does that still stand?  Corporations are recognized as persons?   Can they vote? [/B][/QUOTE]

from same article.  -  (note.  i didnt write this)  

 From that point on, the 14th Amendment, enacted to protect rights of freed slaves, was used routinely to grant corporations constitutional “personhood.” Justices have since struck down hundreds of local, state and federal laws enacted to protect people from corporate harm based on this illegitimate premise. Armed with these “rights,” corporations increased control over resources, jobs, commerce, politicians, even judges and the law.

A United States Congressional committee concluded in 1941, "The principal instrument of the concentration of economic power and wealth has been the corporate charter with unlimited power...."

Many U.S.-based corporations are now transnational, but the corrupted charter remains the legal basis for their existence.

---------  back to opinion.

essentially corporations vote through money donations, lobbies, lawyers and political action commitees.

an optimist might say, well, thats all fine and good because corporations are made up of people.  (much like soylent green)  so it stands to say that if they are made of people than thier influence must then be for the good of those people right?

buzz.  

corporations have no sense of civil liberty much less any allegience to country.  those liberties which free societies hold sacred become mute at the time of employment with the threat of termination hanging over the head of anyone who might challenge the issue.
corporations use contracts to further undermine freedom of information and hinder free expression.

fortunately, it is much more difficult to be fired from being an american.  

a corporation is not neccessarilly epresentative of the system in which is exists or the people who belong to the society by virtue of thier transnational nature.  large corporations come and go in order to best serve thier needs with little regard to the "human" factor.  they seek tax breaks, loosened environmental laws, cheap labor and various other means to increase thier conceptual bottom line.  those who recieve the most benifits are those who are controlling the direction of the boat and where the special interests lie.  

its all about money.

in my opinion, corporations are a form of warfare and those who work for them are both the soldiers and the casualties.  

they have no qualms about slashing thier work force,  seeking ways to screw people out of thier retirement packages just to save a buck or two or to finance that big hefty multimillion dollar pay hike that the ceo just negotiated for himself.

i think that is wrong.  i think that the ceo's should be held accountable.

yet, corporations are like people in that they collect welfare from the government.

now.  you might be asking yourself...am i some sort of pinko commie, "hey lets have a five year plan guy?"

hell no.

but i do think that the bottom of the ladder, those who are actually doing the work need to be aware of what is happening...and how bad it is really going to get if we dont keep our eye on the ball.  if we continue to allow money, a concept, to rule our existances.

think.  city states.  feudalism.  dark ages.

in my humble opinion, it is time to take a good look at the beast, stare it down and reduce the gap between the haves and have nots before most everyone else has nothing.

i think it has to be a mandate of the people, not a law.  a given, rather than a forced ideology.

free markets work when such things occur.  when the market no longer tolerates wasteful decadence in exchange for a new anti-depressant, the market will change.

its happened before.  

they lost thier heads.  (thier CEO's so to speak)

here is the article
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline lazs2

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Abraham Lincoln, futurist:
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2004, 07:56:40 AM »
unions and teachers have far more influence than the NRA or the christian right ever had.   Teachers unions have single handedly stopped funding for any sensible ecucation in this country.  Labor unions have swayed elections and have the democratic party in their pocket.    

lazs