Author Topic: help with P51 tactics (Read 1464 times)

BaneX · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2000, 12:23:00 PM »

Never actually considered that one.. I'm usually blowin in from above and bein the orrible pilot I am get in a bad situation with low E almost everytime.. doesn't help that I now have rudder control and am not used to it, but I'll have to try that one out sometime.

baneX
=357th Pony Express=
"Need a package delivered? Call the Pony Express"

Hristo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2000, 02:53:00 PM »

One thing about the Hog is its *huge* rudder. That thing has superior rudder authority at low speeds. In fact, much better than 109 !

If you fight P 51 in Hog just by pulling on the stick, you are about even. But if you start using rudder tricks, you gain an edge quickly.

Just met a great pilot in the arena and was impressed by all those slices and reversals.

Mr.ED · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2000, 08:53:00 AM »

Here are a few things I'd like to add.

When you see a con, level out with auto-level, are the retrim has happened go to a .5 dive until you are at 225 at a minimum. I climb at a max of 190, just so I have the roll outand spped dive ability. Yes even if he is above you. a level 51 is an inviting target, once the con has target fixation, you can spit-S roll out and he will either over shoot you, or climb back up and try again.

HO's are a losing battle in a pony. A high speed roll out inside of 1.2 will change the jouster's AOT enough to save yer bacon. Extend and gentle climb until you have the "E" advantage.

Convergence: Main 4 at 200. Outside 2 at 250. I tag with my outboard 2 then when I see hits, chainsaw with the main 4. At 500 the outboard guns bullets have crossed at 250 and are at the same wingspan spred from which they were fired (only weaker). This gives you a bit of "spray & prey" and a HO deturent.
150 is a bit close when traveling 300+ knots.

Fight in the vertical. Stay fast. Ride the elevator trim in dives and climbs to retain "E". Re-trim every 5k.

I'm look for 3 (or more)deicated pony pilots to join my squadron on Sunday mornings 9am-noon Eastern US, (6am-9am Western US) and learn wingman tactics.

I havn't been posting as much, and flying more, it shows :-)

All Knights Feel free to e-mail me about pony driving related stuff. All others are just targets.

Mr.ED
Pony Driver
Knight
99th Pursuit Squadron, 327th A.C.G.

Hangtime · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2000, 06:26:00 PM »

I have a great affection for the P51.. and have had some very good rides in it. It is however; fraught with weaknesses; and your opponents are aware of them all. To get the best out of it; try to keep as many options as possible open.. don't get backed into an on the deck situtaion. Down there yer options are damn few.. or none.

All the advice I've seen here has been outstanding and I have only one thing to add...

Tactics: Use the one-circle fight. We'll assume you are merging with your opponent. If you both break in opposite directions; yer in a two circle fight; and you will be looking at another HO at best in 6 seconds. At worst; he'll get well inside you and hammer you at about 15 degrees off before you can even get yer guns on him.

Suggestion: At the merge; start a pre turn.. a little nose low; and at close to corner speed.*** (@325ias at 10k) Which ever way he turns.. GO THAT WAY. Now yer inna one-circle fight; following him around the turn.. If he goes up; hold yer nose down a bit longer to keep the e building; then pull up after him to tag him on the top. I call this 'gettin in the saddle'. One you've got him in front of you manuvering; you have all the chips.. and can cash them as necessary.

If he's getting angles; you can always break away and dive out.. and drag him to yer pals.

*** Most common mistake at a merge where u intend to turn with your opponent is to come in waaaay to fast. This leaves only going UP as your first move; and your opponent will no doubt be looking for you to do just that. You meet one of these new spits or 109's with that move and find out too late he was fast too, then compound the error by pulling back towards him instead of gettin outta Dodge.. well then; you may have your head handed to you.

Remember.. if it is your intent to manuver.. come to the merge at your best manuver speed; and turn the way he does.. not opposite.

One move that has worked for me repeatedly is the FAST merge. On this one I do it 'all wrong'.. I come to the guy at 500IAS and pull up at the merge into a climbing left hander.. this puts me well above the opponent if he flat turns; and I'm 'on the perch' as was described earlier in the thread. If he has a lot of E and goes up too; then I'm back to a second HO developing.. and then it's either the 'slow merge' scenario.. I can opt to dodge his HO shot and at the break swing around with him, again avoiding a two-circle fight. Or; if he's shown he's got the inside track; I can roll away; dive and run like a screamin little girl.

Hope this helps...

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

Jekyll · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2000, 06:34:00 PM »

Soulyss. If you find yourself getting bounced by higher cons after you've dived on one of their friends, it's not really a "P51" issue, its more of a "Situational Awareness" issue.

Anytime you are considering diving in to attack, take a few seconds to have a look around first. Check your radar, check the position of the nearest enemy field. Have a bit of a think about the likely ingress points of enemy cons and scan that region of sky carefully.

If your radar shows enemy dots inbound, wait until you get a visual on them before committing to an attack.

Now if you still decide to dive in, and suddenly find yourself with 2 or more high cons after you.. your first and only thought should be survival. Don't try to go on the attack immediately. They probably already have an energy advantage over you, and unless they are flying B26's or B17's they have a turn rate advantage as well.

So beat feet towards friendly territory... and establish a slight climb so you can level the energy stakes.

In a real emergency, sometimes a dive to the deck works well... cons at 20k are often reluctant to give up all that hard won altitude in order to pursue a single aircraft down low.

I think it was Fletchman who once said, "if you don't have a maneuverability advantage, you'd better make sure you have an energy advantage before deciding to engage". Good advice. Many of the guys I see get killed in the arena die not because of failures in flying skill, but because of being too aggressive at the wrong time..... flying with the balls instead of the brain.

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

Soulyss · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2000, 12:17:00 AM »

If I follow someone down to the deck in a fight and then get bounced by his friends I'll probably just pound my head on the desk and curse my lousy luck and get back up there and have a go at it. My biggest problems are When I've spent time to climb up to +20k alt only to come across a bunch of baddies at 30k hehe. If it's one thing I hate it's a fair fight

thanks for the tips guys if any of you pony drivers see my online I'd love to wing with ya.

[This message has been edited by Soulyss (edited 02-07-2000).]

humble · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2000, 01:30:00 PM »

Hangtime...

couple questions on your one circle fight:

1) do you hi/low yoyo to keep your 325 corner speed?

2) when you convert from lag to lead do you simply pull more G's or pop flaps at some point?

3)If i'm the con I'd probably split-s out vs going up...my instinct in a pony would be to follow with some kind of inverted hi yoyo..figuring I'd have e to catch you..I'd worry bout overshooting and bottoming out under the con on split-s if i followed...what do you reccomend there?

Lephturn · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2000, 02:25:00 PM »

My $.02 Humble,

1. Use the yoyo's to let gravity help you turn, and avoid pulling high G's. By using yoyo's, you can keep your speed up and preserve E.

2. Normally when converting to Lead I'll just pull a bit more G. However, don't do it untill you have a good shot at a kill, because it's going to burn some E and that's a bad thing if he doesn't die.

3. If you are fast enough go up.. let the spitball go down assuming you are faster. Don't try to pull big G's or pop flaps unless you can kill him right then, or you are putting yourself in a world of hurt. Go up and let gravity help you turn while it works against him... you'll win.

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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

humble · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2000, 04:12:00 PM »

thanx lephturn

Hangtime · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2000, 09:31:00 PM »

Rgr what lept said.. regarding flaps.. thats a chip cashin move. You put them down yah better be in the kill zone.

re: The low split s by the spit.. I'd yo yo up; and sprial climb over.. if he runs, he's meat when he breaks. (spits dont extend very well..

) but chances are he's gonna grab a bit of e from the split S and try to zoom up to you. Don't take the bait.. climb over him and wait till he tops out. Then rudder over and dive down to slice his wings off.

Caution.. Watch those e states. If he's got more than yah think he'll pick yah off on the perch!

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8