Author Topic: F4U-1 vs Hurrican't  (Read 3150 times)

Offline Shane

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« on: December 28, 2004, 08:33:06 PM »


For your enlightment and glimpse into the wonderful world of ACM and E-management, I present:

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/150_1104286893_film48.ahf


sad thing is he probably doesn't even realize why he lost, which was merely using angles then speed to make sure he stayed out front.


:aok
« Last Edit: December 28, 2004, 09:38:08 PM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Ratnick

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2004, 09:22:26 PM »
WTG GHI (you have to watch the film).

Offline Xjazz

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2004, 10:56:17 PM »
Hi Shane,

I get error message with film viewer. I guess I dont  have a proper map.

Which map is used? TY

Offline TequilaChaser

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2004, 11:11:51 PM »
would much rather seen a film where you whipped up on me Shane...........



:)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2004, 11:33:56 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Shane

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2004, 11:49:21 PM »
ozkansas...

your film folder may also be too full, esp if you have more than 100 films.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Redd

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Re: F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2004, 11:52:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane



sad thing is he probably doesn't even realize why he lost, which was merely using angles then speed to make sure he stayed out front.


:aok



in my amateur opinion, he lost the merge because he went for the HO shot rather than focussing on position. He never recovered from the lousy position after the first merge and it was all downhill for him after that.

Anyone who still thinks HO's are a great idea should probably watch this.

The 51 should have probably got you ,he was d300 with a nice shot, must have got stage fright   ;)
I come from a land downunder

Offline Vudak

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2004, 12:40:55 AM »
You pull up at the merge much sooner then I ever think to.  Doesn't your belly get shot up all to hell often?  Sort of an experience thing to know when to do?
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Stang

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2004, 12:53:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
You pull up at the merge much sooner then I ever think to.  Doesn't your belly get shot up all to hell often?  Sort of an experience thing to know when to do?


Exactly.  A bit of a twist on the initial loop does wonders to throw off the ho dweeb.  Then just come over the top and humiliate the baby seal  :D

Offline Shane

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2004, 12:58:54 AM »
actually, i rarely take hits on that merge, for 3 reasons:

1. i'm often under their nose - or heading that way
2. they're not expecting you to cut up and across and only have a brief snap shot
3. they're usually going for the HO

i usually do this aournd 800-1k out to avoid the (potential/most likely) HO, maybe sooner 1.5k or so out if i want to get an early start on the inevitable FW runner-type, or to present my 6 as bait and then get the overshoot, hoping they committed.  the further under them i can get, the earlier i'll do it since i'm out of their view.

any closer in than 800 and you're begging to get hit by a HO as often as not.

how often are you taking HO/Ram?  ;)
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Redd

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2004, 01:13:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
You pull up at the merge much sooner then I ever think to.  Doesn't your belly get shot up all to hell often?  Sort of an experience thing to know when to do?



you wouldn't get pinged more than 1 in a 100,  it's a very hard shot for them to make  - - if you go low on merge, under their nose  -  they are trying to make a neg G shot which is very hard to do. best the might have is a snapshot as u go up and across.
I come from a land downunder

Offline Widewing

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Re: Re: F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2004, 01:50:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Redd
in my amateur opinion, he lost the merge because he went for the HO shot rather than focussing on position. He never recovered from the lousy position after the first merge and it was all downhill for him after that.

Anyone who still thinks HO's are a great idea should probably watch this.

The 51 should have probably got you ,he was d300 with a nice shot, must have got stage fright   ;)


There's one reason why these guys did so badly...They stink, period. That was about the worst Hurricane flying I've seen in a long time, and I spend 75% of my online time training noobs (thankfully, not these two). That guy flying the P-51 couldn't buy a clue if his name was Bill Gates. Shane was absolutely correct when he typed "seals" in the text buffer.

I watched the Hurricane wondering when he was going to reverse, but he seemed utterly confused, almost certainly having lost sight of Shane. Meanwhile, Shane executed a nice vertical reverse, pulling off power and using flaps over the top to tighten it up nicely. At no time did the Hurricane pilot ever utilize his turning advantage to its full ability. Instead, he carried too much speed most of the time, negating his advantage. Not only that, but he missed by a mile on the original HO attempt, which Shane avoided easily enough.

What about that guy in the P-51? Terrible shooting. No clue what to do when Shane went vertical again. Shane did the wise thing and eliminated the Hurricane and its dangerous Hispanos first. However, the guy in the P-51 had an excellent opportunity, which he blew due to several factors. Horrible gunnery, and no ACM skill whatsoever.

Seals indeed. There's fewer players that have any command of ACM then ever before (since I started 3 years ago), and even less who know how to exploit their aircraft's advantages.

Anyway, maybe that spanking will send these two guys to the TA or DA for practice. Then again, probably not. ;)

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Kweassa

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2004, 02:05:58 AM »
I was kinda thinking the Hurricane was keeping his speed up on purpose.

 I've reviewed the speeds between the Hog and the Hurricane throughout the film and frankly, the Hurricane was way faster than he should have been.

 The only reason I could think of was that the Hurri wanted a timed reversal that left the Hog right in front of him without much speed advantage. I don't think it's anything too strange - in truth these kind of mistakes are pretty much common in the MA.

 Probably the Hurri pilot was pretty much confident that most pilots he would meet in that area would be less in skill than himself, so he takes a 'inferior' Hurri up, and then sees a F4U that engages that sticks around and dares to rolling scissor a Hurricane.

 He probably thought it was a good opportunity to get a kill, but if he spent too much E in decisive evasives he won't ever get a chance to down the Hog if it points down and decides to run away.

 So I think the Hurricane pulled stunts a bit too close, and didn't realize this was not a normal Hog pilot, until he got the first hit and the damage to the plane forced him to panic or something.

 I make that kind of mistakes too. I'm not a good pilot, but if I ever see someone who's seemingly worse than I am, I'd try to "lure" him to latch on to me if I'm in a slower plane.

 I'd make half-hearted evasives, thinking the guy behind me probably will not hit me, and try not to maneuver too much, because if my plane is so much slower than him, getting an overshoot won't result in anything, since I still can't shoot him down due to the speed difference.

 So, I'd loosen up in the turns, try to seduce the faster plane to lead turn on me, and time a reversal when both of us would be low in speed. A risky business, but it usually works in the MA against the 'seals'.

 Ofcourse, from time to time I get to actually meet someone who's not a 'seal'.. and then things would go bad.

 I dunno, but I think the same thing happened to the Hurri pilot. I doubt he'd be flying the Hurricane so fast with so loose turns, if he knew that the Hog pilot behind him was very competent.

Offline Redd

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Re: Re: Re: F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2004, 02:13:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
There's one reason why these guys did so badly...They stink, period. That was about the worst Hurricane flying I've seen in a long time, and I spend 75% of my online time training noobs (thankfully, not these two). That guy flying the P-51 couldn't buy a clue if his name was Bill Gates. Shane was absolutely correct when he typed "seals" in the text buffer.

I watched the Hurricane wondering when he was going to reverse, but he seemed utterly confused, almost certainly having lost sight of Shane. Meanwhile, Shane executed a nice vertical reverse, pulling off power and using flaps over the top to tighten it up nicely. At no time did the Hurricane pilot ever utilize his turning advantage to its full ability. Instead, he carried too much speed most of the time, negating his advantage. Not only that, but he missed by a mile on the original HO attempt, which Shane avoided easily enough.

What about that guy in the P-51? Terrible shooting. No clue what to do when Shane went vertical again. Shane did the wise thing and eliminated the Hurricane and its dangerous Hispanos first. However, the guy in the P-51 had an excellent opportunity, which he blew due to several factors. Horrible gunnery, and no ACM skill whatsoever.

Seals indeed. There's fewer players that have any command of ACM then ever before (since I started 3 years ago), and even less who know how to exploit their aircraft's advantages.

Anyway, maybe that spanking will send these two guys to the TA or DA for practice. Then again, probably not. ;)

My regards,

Widewing



Not sure that ridiculing newer players is all that helpful  to anyone though. We all started somewhere.

At least they were in planes having a go :)
I come from a land downunder

Offline TequilaChaser

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2004, 02:57:29 AM »
well, Shane had a good reason I guess to type what he did, but  just because  DmdChief got whipped up on then JJ169th, there is no reason to slam them like what has happened here........

one would think an AH Trainer would have been more polite and offer to help rather than saying

I spend 75% of my time training noobs ( thankfully not these 2)

what part of that is any type of being a Trainer?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2004, 10:36:46 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Cooley

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F4U-1 vs Hurrican't
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2004, 03:46:08 AM »
with that 'tude, dont really matter how much ACM you know....
Hope thats not how you handle peeps in the TA , No +'s for u
Cooleyof 367th