Possible influx on WW2OL newbies

[Mitsu]

really heavy bad stutters, screen freeze for 10sec, strange D520 rolls, uber 520 cockpit armor...

Need new patch, or call "BUY MORE RAM", or "SHUT UP LUFTWHINNER".

[Wanker]

Wow, the amount of misinformation, half-truths and slightly biased opinions in this thread is amazing.

So far, I think Westy, Pepe and Gixer have made the fairest appreciations of the differences between WW2OL and AH.

As is no surprise, I have a slightly biased opinion, too.

In WW2OL, it's all about combined arms combat. That's where it excels.
It takes a concerted effort of all arms to win battles, and even things like supply can't be ignored, or else your side will fail. There is a whole strategic aspect to WW2OL that I'm embarrassed to admit I don't pay much attention to. But there are people spending hours and hours behind the scenes, making strategic decisions that ultimately affect where I find myself fighting on any given day.  

 Actually, my favorite feature is the sounds of WW2OL. Each weapon(and most vehicles) has it's own unique sound, and when you have spent enough time in combat, you can actually tell where the enemy and friendly rounds coming from. From the whistling of bombs, the explosions of shells and grenades, the roar of airplane engines, the zing of rifle bullets and the staccato chatter of machine guns, to the quiet chirping of birds, the bark of a dog and even the hoot of an owl, the sounds in WW2OL are fabulous.

Does CRS customer service suck? Completely. Are there some FM issues? Undeniably. Is there a learning curve to playing and getting your joystick setup working? Absolutely.

But once all the planets are lined up, it is a gaming experience second to none right now.

CRS may not have any customer support, but they do have a very active development group who have been cranking out patches and additions like nobody's business in 2004.

When I was at the 2001 AH con, Pyro told me that he would be surprised if CRS made it through 2001 without folding. I wonder what he thinks now as CRS is rolling full steam into 2005, and WW2OL is hitting it's stride and has entered it's glory days.

As always, YMMV. The best thing to do is give it a try and see how you like it. For some people, it's a revelation. For others, it's a non-player.  

BTW, the 332nd Fighting Mongrels, an offshoot of the 332nd Flying Mongrels of AH fame, is my squad in WW2OL. Approximately 16 of the 20 Fighting Mongrels of WW2OL are also still playing AH, which I think can be used as evidence of the high quality of both AH and WW2OL.  If anyone would like to try out WW2OL and hook up with a squad stacked with AH folks, I'd be happy to help you get started.

[SLO]

which side you playin on banana?

[Vulcan]

mmm banana, I still play WW2OL, a lot more than AH (comon HTs wheres ToD?). But I get sick of the claims that people make like "WW2OL has a real this and real that". As for being in its stride, I dunno, numbers are not what they were 12 months ago, and CRS just locked down the forums so that only sub's can read em (I'm banned til 25/Jan from my Breakfast Club pic.... btw which I'm a member of  ) - from what I understand they're worried about the bad effect whining has on subscriptions.

I wonder how long til someone sets up an alternate ww2ol bbs?

[Lizking]

If you can get a group of 8 or 10 guys, most as infantry, a couple of AT, maybe a truck and a plane or 2 for CAS, all on TS, there is no finer war gaming experience than WWIIOL.

As a lone wolf or a newbie, it is a POS.

[thrila]

I had noticed myself that the forums had bene locked down- i usually had a look there once or twice a week to see how the game is coming along.  I wasn't elligible for the welcome back promotion as i ended my account a long time ago, though you could be enabled if you asked.    
 I had thought about emailing asking to be enabled but with all the trouble i've had with CRS customer support in the past i didn't bother.

[Apache]

I left AH and went to WWIIO in Oct 2003. I agree with Vulcan. WWIIO flight is horrible. AH still rules the skies, IMHO of course.

Hey Poopy!!!!

[Widgeo]

Originally posted by Lizking
If you can get a group of 8 or 10 guys, most as infantry, a couple of AT, maybe a truck and a plane or 2 for CAS, all on TS, there is no finer war gaming experience than WWIIOL.

As a lone wolf or a newbie, it is a POS.

I disagree. I've played wwiiol since day one and except for a couple of months in a squad its been as a lone wolf.  I don't like the idea of some punk kid, or anybody else,  telling me where I can or cannot play.  I've had no problems hooking up with a squad who are on attack or help defending a city.

I agree that the immersion in wwiiol has no rivals. Many times I spent as a inf hiding in some trees at night listening to tanks drive by. You can hear their tracks clanking and actually tell what type of tank it is by the engine noise.

When I fly I like to drive the JU-87. Theres nothing more fun than to fly a few feet above the ground strafing enemy inf as they scatter like scared deer. Of course I've been shot down a few times doing that by inf but its worth it.

Does the FM suck? Sure it does. big time. Thats why I subbed over here.  Plus I enjoy the selection of planes over here.

Now if you could take the planes and FM from AH and combine them with wwiiol ground vehicles and add some weather you would have a killer game.

[Obear1971]

the 2 games are horses for courses

If you want to fly ANY WWII era aircraft you like, regarless of which side it belongs to, and just take off doigfight till you die, respawn and do it again, AH is your Game and You prob will have issues with WWIIonline,, not becasue you cant do that, but becasue there is a whole other side to it.

I find the people that say AH flight Model is the tops and WWIIonline is the pits is amuseing.

There are some "Areas" of WWIIonline flight model that are weird, structual damage will adress most.

But last time i played AH, you could GLIDE in a fully loaded Lancaster bomber to amazings slow speeds before a stall. Somthein you coudlnt do to any aircraft in WWIIonline.
There is little sence of WEIGHT on the aircraft in Aces High.  In WWIIonline you will start to sink if you dont keep a little speed up and you really feel the weight of the aircraft.

So AH is FAr from the bee's knees.

WWIIonlines biggest problem is the fact you fly either Axis or Allied aircraft, the flight models for each side are very diffrent and have to be flown as such.

IN AH you can go spit agaisnt Spit, 109 against 109.  No 1 side has an advantage as they all have the same aircraft.

In WWIIonline this somtimes casues a few plaers to get mad, cod they fly Axis and their 109 cant out turn a Spit, or that their Spit wont climb with a 109.

Its actually a bold steap as vertually all online game have 100% balanced equipment.

WWIIonline is better that Aces high in alot of things, the graphics on the terrain for a start, fully 3D buildings, proper towns etc, trees that look GREAT and sway in the wind, AH terrain looks awfull, but then its a Air combat game so it dosent need them.

Aces High has a far larger aircraft set and offers more choice in this department.

But its a game style thing that decides what is great and what is crap.

For every devopted Aces High player that says WWIIonline sucks, there is a WWIIonline player that will tell you otherwise.

People leave WWIIonline, but then people leave Aces High (seen a fair few dear john letters over AH2)

As for the "NO CUSTOMER SERVICES" issue, ive never had reason to contact them so i cant speak for that.

But as far as putting in lots of new stuff  very rapidly, keepign the community updates with regular info and a Newletter they cant be beat.

I know how long updates took for AH, WWIIonline knocks out a feature patch with new toys and cool stuff every 6 weeks. So they aint that bad.

2 diffrent games, try and decide.

[HugeHead]

Making comparisons with these two games is a waste of time...Let me rephrase...comparisons are fine...arguing over them is the waste of time;).

I played WWIIonline for well over a year and was online day one when the game came out. It's biggests features are it's largest failings. The whole CoC structure did nothing for me even as a member of a squad. For me personally it simply added soap opera dramatics to the game play. Now, the personal dramatics/dynamics are indeed what make a MMOG experience so much fun in many ways but, WWIIonline really trips over it's own player and dev egos here too often.

I can't agree that WWIIonline is more committed to any kind of historical accuracy. In fact, CRS stated several times it is NOT an historical recreation in any form. The representation of countries in the game (and the attitude of CRS regarding it) is an excellent example of this. Perhaps this has changed though.

My biggest critism has always been that the game simply takes too much time to play. This is pretty SOP with Sims but, it's extreme with WWIIonline. I just don't have the time or desire to drive for 30 minutes to participate in a 5 minute engagement or worse find that the action I was heading to support is long over. And as with many online games it's impossible to get any communication via the text chat which is helpful. I've found the AH community to be refershingly different in this regard. I've found them always to be quite helpful.

I very much doubt this game is coming into it's own now. It's simply holding on and I'm really glad they have! The vision is glorious but, the implementation leaves much to be desired. A game coming into it's own does not lock down forums to prevent perspective players from seeing the negative comments from their own player base! WWIIonline had it's chance and it's gone. Only just recently they finally addressed the 64 player visual limit. A good thing but, too late I think. I don't see the game or CRS folding in the near future but, I'm certain that as long as the same people run the show there that game will remain big with only a very small niche group or players.

I spent an hour over there today reading the site which in many areas including the current vehicles and weapons is woefully out of the date (what does that say to a potential player I ask?) and I don't see anything other then graphics and perhaps performance have changed. The basic short comings of the game at least IMHO still remain.

Certainly AH trial model has helped grow their community. It's what lured me here. Having a no CC trial plan is the way to go. If you want to beat the sub key requirement on WWIIonline then just take a look through any dollar bin at your favourite PC game outlet. It's a reasonably good bet you will find the WWIIonline retail box there . I think I have a couple lying around here I haven't used yet.

Thanks!
hh

[Wanker]

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree on the quality of the WW2OL air combat experience. I say air combat experience because I don't judge any game soley by the fidelity of it's flight model. I didn't judge Warbirds or AH by this, either. I judge each game by the overall air combat experience. And for me, Warbirds, Aces High, and now WW2OL all felt good to me. Very different, for sure. But all were very immersive and I've had many intense dogfights in all.

I had to LOL when I read my good friend Apache's agreement with Vulcan on his negative view of the air combat experience in WW2OL.  I respect Apache a great deal, but I couldn't disagree with him more. I actually think the WW2OL air combat experience is much more impressive than the AH experience, in many ways.  

Like obear, I have been impressed with WW2OL's implementation of air combat. When you combine the beauty of the foliage and the terrain in general, with the whispiness of the cloud layers, I actually feel like I'm flying over a living, breathing earth. The actual FM seems very different to me than what I was used to in AH, but after a period of acclimation, it feels "right" to me. Notice that I didn't say "realistic" or "historically correct", because I've never flown a real Hurricane I or Bf-110C, and can't judge what is "real" and what isn't. What I can say is that WW2OL's FM gives me the illusion of flying a real plane, especially the way they handle ground modelling, and when coming in for a landing. Obear's comment on feeling the weight of the planes is spot on. I notice it the most when coming in to land. Unlike the planes in AH, it is relatively easy to bleed off airspeed in WW2OL, without having to resort to my usual AH antics of having to perform multiple flat scissors and apply oppsite rudder to get the AH planes to slow down. In WW2OL, when coming in to land, I just throttle back, and adjust prop pitch up, and the airspeed bleeds off quite quickly. Landing a plane in WW2OL feels much more "right" to me than it does in AH.

That being said, they(CRS) have plenty of work to do on structural damage. While you will black out if you "yank & bank" in WW2OL, you can still perform almost any manuever without fear of snapping your wings off(although you'll probably be blacked out while doing it).

Going back to the positive, the damage model of WW2OL is hugely impressive to me. As your rounds strike an aircraft, chunks come flying off, and if you hit a wing root just right, you can snap the wing right off. Also, hit engines can start streaming back either black smoke(oil hit) or white smoke(radiator hit). You also can't press a keystroke and get a list of which components are damaged. You will feel it in the way your aircraft performs, however. The most impressive experience I've had with the DM is when a 109e bounced me(no direct six view in WW2OL, so bounces are actually possible!) and his first pass damaged me, but didn't cause catastrophic damage, so I was able to use a nearby cloud layer to lose him and make a bee line for home. Something was wrong with my Hurricane, but I couldn't quite figure it out. It just wasn't flying normally. After awhile, in my headphones, I started hearing a slight "tick-tick-tick-tick" sound, like a 70's chevy with a stuck lifter. It got louder after about 10 seconds, so I looked down at my oil temp, and noticed it was way above normal. I got this sickening feeling in my gut, as I now knew what was happening. The engine's ticking got louder, until it became a heavy knocking, and it finally started coughing and belching out black smoke. Then it seized up altogether and left my propeller windmilling. That was pretty damn cool damage effects. Very impressive!

The whole "Battle of France/Battle of Britain" planeset has always been an attraction for me, and the fact that I know what planes I stand a chance at coming into contact with, impresses the historical part of me. No worries about having to battle another Hurricane, or a Nikki or an LA-7.

I like the limited supply rules, too. They may not be realistic, per se, but at least they make me realize that the #1 priority is RTB safely, whether or not I get any kills or not. I know that if I don't RTB safely, there may not be another plane available for me to fly. To some extent, I think this reduces the "kamikaze" attitude of so many AH pilots, who know that an endless supply of planes will be there to fly if they decide to HO that chog.

For me, flying and fighting is more involved than just the "realism" of the flight model. It's the whole flying/fighting experience. So, while I respect the guys who point out the glaring deficiencies of parts of the WW2OL FM and structural DM, I feel that the positives outweigh the negatives.

SLO, my squad plays for the Allies most of the time. We have changed over and played Axis from time to time, but I think we will pretty much remain an Allied squad.

[Bison]

I have played WWIIOL since it has come out. Some of my squad mates are  currently active there with the Allies. I have played both AH and WWIIOL at the same time. As a player of both games I can say that some individuals are correct that these are two different games that should not be compared. WWIIOL is mainly a ground war game. But its not the poor flight sim portion of the game that turning members away or the failure to add new planes.  For instance:


1) Equipment is limited. You only a certain number at spawn points. This includes Airfields as well. All too many times I have loged on to find the last lplane at the feild to be in the hands of a new player trying to leanr to fly in the game. I watch as he crashed the last plane at the field, oh well guess Im off to the ground war, but wait all the equipment is almost gone, so I am an infamtry guy staning in the middle of the feild with a rifle wondering if I am going to get a plane this evening. not good working a long day looking for a dogfight and ending up with a rifle. You pay $ but you cant get equipment to do what you want. Hmmm cant wait!

2) Equipment is limited based upon rank. CRS wants you to stay to play. They want players to start with a low rank and then get better equipment as they progress with rank.  This also will apply to planes. The Allies have the French and The British, but they want you to join an Area of operation to place you under the Allied High Command ( players picked by CRS...aka guys that play online too much In my opinion); consequently, you have to build rank up in both groups to get a better plane options. But this is ahrd to do if they tell you to play in a certain area of the game all the time! Thanks I pay $ but you tell me I have a few towns to play in, hope I can find a piece of equipment I want there lol. Makes it hard if your looking for a plane!

3) Air Combat is more of an arcade game than anything else. For you WW2OL guys, sorry but it doesn't even compare to any current flight sims , especially AH. I have been in dogfights with 109s wathcing planes never lose E, pumping ammo into planes at point balnks range and not getting a clean kill. For instance, I have flamed 109s and watch them hit the deck and fly away as a fireball and land safely many miles aways, I have watched flamming 110s and Ju87s still casually fly around bombing tanks and infantry on the ground as if nothing was wrong, planes flying with a missing wing without any change in flight performance. Flammming planes crashing to the ground and not getting a kill because I never shot the pilot ( its so infantry oriented that they even expect a pilot kill for a pure air kill). I have watched Ju87s with landing their gear fly along the road and tipping tanks and trucks over, but the Ju87 is never affected. Bombing is a joke in the game the Allied Blem Bomber is so poor guys run around dive bombing in them. CRS gives any guy that flys a Blem for 10 minutes and lands it a success, which is how many new players try to get ranks for planes by flying around in Blems watching a timer(sad).


3) The Axis or Allied command structure is being pushed on players. If you are a squad then you are encouraged to join the command structure in order to accomplish things with other players. IF you do this, which my squad mates have done in WWIIOL they e-mailed instructions to them what to do, when to log on, who will need to drive supplies to fron line towns due to limited resources at towns. If they try and do this they find that they are spending hours driving equipment around doing nothing. At times this Allied High command has told them to stop driving tanks during a fun battle , stop attacking a town the spent hours preparing for to run to a town and be left only playing as riflemen.  They are left scratching their heads wondering what is going on.  They have pushed squads into this Command structure due to fear that only active members will have a better equipment list at spawn points.

4) If you contact CRS you learn that CRS has poor support staff. Their attitude is their way or no way. They are pushing away the squad concept. For instance, the C HAWKs were known as a fun group of guys that like to play and have fun online. They were recruited by the 8th Cavaly goup made up of several squads, which was part of the 3rd Light mechanized Division in an Area of operation that consisted of several Cav units...the C HAWKS were bogged down with running supplies, being told where to play and when to play, what use as equipment...sad...If you questioned AHC then you were criticized by AHC and CRS.  Some squad members still play in WWIIOL, but they ahve left the Allied High Command and now just play for fun, what a concept!

WWIIOL is a fun ground game but CRS is trying to do too much too fast. The poor flight Sim and Allied High Command structure has turned me off to this game. If you want to drive  a tank and run around as  infantry than you'll probably like like this game.
For now I apprecaite the fact that when I log onto AH I'll always have an option to fly whatever plane I'm in the mood for!

Bison

[Mitsu]

Urrraahhhhh V1.8.3 is out, huge screen freezes gone, bad stutters is much improved in my system again.

I'm going back to WW2OL sky till Aces High V2.03 is out.

[Gixer]

Originally posted by Mitsu
Urrraahhhhh V1.8.3 is out, huge screen freezes gone, bad stutters is much improved in my system again.

I'm going back to WW2OL sky till Aces High V2.03 is out.

Do you still get bad stutters near towns when the tracers are flying? As that was always a real pain.



...-Gixer

[Apache]

banana, you're disagreeing with me?! Why you...you...lol

My biggest gripe with WWIIO flight is the views. Wish they were as innovative as HTC, realizing that we're looking though a 2d monitor and not "sitting" in a 3d cockpit.