Hi yoyo "spin turns"

[humble]

Over the last couple of months I've been very impressd with a few folks ability to make a very tight turn off a hi yoyo. Moss did it to me couple nights ago in a nikki...he was 1800 out neg e to me and pulled up into a hi yoyo..I was positive i'd cut him in half and was patiently waiting for him to enter the "convergence zone". I had a rear deflection shot at 800 a T bone at 600 and was nose to nose with that Nicki's 20mm's at 400...OUCH. I had a hi closing rate so this happened very quickly..literaly looks lke the plane was spinning in place.

HOW HE DO THAT.....goes off mumbling..dragging beaten up joystick

[Sharky]

Humble,

Can you say rudder?  

Sharky

[humble]

I know thats part of it...but often at low speed the rudder seems to push nose under or start plane rolling on its back...starting to experiment offline a bit..my guess is combo of rudder and throttle chop at proper angle of attack will let plane "fall off" and settle nose down almost instantly.

[combat23]

As you start to drop add full throttle. Engine toqure will help pull the nose down. Takes alot of Practice and I havn't got it down yet. The 109f and early g's do it well if you remember to stall turn to your left from a high AOA.

See ya on line

[spinny]

Over the last couple of months I've been very impressd with a few folks ability to make a very tight turn off a hi yoyo. Moss did it to me couple nights ago in a nikki...he was 1800 out neg e to me and pulled up into a hi yoyo..

Why do you call this a yoyo? For the record:
a yoyo is performed by an aircraft in lead pursuit of another aircraft to prevent an overshoot. If he was infront of you, then unless he was in lead pursuit of another plane, he wasn't doing a yoyo. You, on the other hand, if your speed was high enough, could have pulled a yoyo on him.

Sorry if I'm appearing to be picky here, but these terms "yoyo", "lead pursuit", "lag pursuit", etc. have well-established meanings in ACM. I think they should be used correctly.

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Spinny, VF-17, The Jolly Rogers 8X

[Phantom121]

I believe the correct name for that maneuver is the Chandelle and Niki's do it well.  

[Ripsnort]

Hint: Alittle,quick snap on aileron combined with the rudder and throttle will quickly "snap" it over while in a hammar head will cause a miss from pursuer, if he's within guns range.

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[combat23]

Darn, I thought a chandell was a climbing turn. This sounds like a stall turn or hammerhead.

Guess I better get back to the books.

See ya on line

[spinny]

A Chandelle is a climbing turn. See

 http://www.bluemaxrc.com/aerobatics.html#chandelle

[humble]

spinny, a hi yoyo is a high yoyo. That is exactly what moss did. His position in front of me is not material to the ACM in question.

A chandell (pardon spelling) would be a vertical move with a tight reverse at the top. This was a true turn with both vertical and horizontal elements. By using the hi yoyo he scraped off speed and tightened his turn while minimizing the effect of a break turn on his already inferior energy position.

Obviously I misjudged my line and got to aggressive in converting from a lag to lead turn and got ahead of where i needed to be. Moss actually radio'd an apology afterward    .

Think he was as suprised at me at result. I told him it was one of best moves i've seen yet.

I realize that traditionally a hi or low yoyo is an offensive move however it is also an outstanding defensive move instead of a flat turn.

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 01-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 01-21-2000).]

[spinny]

spinny, a hi yoyo is a high yoyo. That is exactly what moss did. His position in front of me is not material to the ACM in question.


See Shaw, Air Combat Tactics and Maneuvering.

[Lephturn]

Sound more like a wing-over to me.  A Chandelle is more of an energy gaining gentle reversal.  It's not fast or quick like a wing-over, but slow and steady.  Basically a chandelle is like the first part of a climbing spiral.

The move you describe is one great sim pilots master.  It is basically a hammerhead turn at the top of a short zoom, but with a bit of an oblique angle thrown in.  Done right, I think it's called a wing-over, but a "proper" one you are not likely to see in combat.  One of the benefits of this move is to hide your intentions and quickly reverse and surprise your opponent.

Trust me, when we get the P-38, you will see this move every day. <G>  The P-38 has incredible low-speed control because of the prop-wash of the engines giving airflow over the control surfaces even at incredibly low air speeds.  Some of my squad mates, Vila, Worr, Squid, and Mili can do this move in a P-38 (WB) so well it's scary.  Garner is another guy who has this move mastered.



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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[humble]

spinny,

A hi yoyo is an ACM, shaw describes it's use primarily in an offensive capacity but yoyo's are also defensive moves. any flat turn with a vertical component is a hi or low yoyo repectively...my question relates to proficiency of the turn not what to call it.

[jscharpf]

humble,

are you from AW3? I seem to rememember your cpid.
This is RBN. I wasn't real active so you may not remember me, but if you ARE from AW3, it's good to see you here
 


sorry this post has nothing to with the thread.
rbn

[humble]

RBN...sure i remember you. Welcome to AW hell  

I've been here getting my prettythang kicked for a couple months now.