Stupid math tricks and nicotine addiction

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Jackal1
I`ll tell ya what instead.
 What you just posted makes absolutely no sense and has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

but what you are saying doesnt make much sense either.

You are measuring addiction by amount of an item consumed

Addiction:

1.  Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance

2.  The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

addict:

1  To cause to become physiologically or psychologically dependent on a habit-forming substance: The thief was addicted to cocaine.

2.  To occupy (oneself) with or involve (oneself) in something habitually or compulsively: The child was addicted to video games.


that's strait from websters.  To me it seems that withdrawl and addiction go hand in hand because one causes the other, and the other leads to the one.  That's why they say addiction is a viscious circle.

"Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance"  That's withdrawl if I've ever heard it really.  People go back to drugs because they 1. don't have the will power to stop  2.  because they cant take the psycological effects of withdrawl  3.  Because they cant take the PHYSICAL effects of withdrawl.


I really cant see how saying one thing is more addictive than another because more people use it is really accurate when logically one thing can be more addictive but not have many people addicted to it.

[Nash]

A quick and dirty hypothetical.

Lets say Jackal is completely clean... a health freak.

Over the course of a week I feed him cigarettes, coffee and heroin.

Then I yank all of them, and ask him to choose.

If he chooses coffee, he will have to give up his hobbies.

If he chooses cigs, he will have to give up his job.

If he chooses heroin, he will have to give up his family.

The result is a no-brainer. He will choose heroin, and give up all three.

Practically a dead-to-rights given.... requires little imagination.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by rpm
If you consider that airline pilots are not eating a barvarian cream donut, applying make-up and using one hand to talk on a cell phone while changing radio staions with the other and driving with their knees...yeah, I'd say it's 1000 times safer, if not more.

I'd add that the death to accident ratio is much higher in aircraft than land vehicles so the probability of surviving an auto accident is much higher than an airline one.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
but what you are saying doesnt make much sense either.

You are measuring addiction by amount of an item consumed

 to the one.  That's why they say addiction is a viscious circle.

"Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance"  That's withdrawl if I've ever heard it really.  

 I`m measuring addiction by the pure fact of addiction, not by consumption. That keeps trying to be put in my corner here and it is not.

------>"Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance<------ That`s addiction, not withdrawal. Withdrawal is what is involved in the breaking of the addiction.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Nash
A quick and dirty hypothetical.

Lets say Jackal is completely clean... a health freak.

Over the course of a week I feed him cigarettes, coffee and heroin.

Then I yank all of them, and ask him to choose.

If he chooses coffee, he will have to give up his hobbies.

If he chooses cigs, he will have to give up his job.

If he chooses heroin, he will have to give up his family.

The result is a no-brainer. He will choose heroin, and give up all three.

Practically a dead-to-rights given.... requires little imagination.

  OK, let`s go with this and see how much sense it makes.
 1." Lets say Jackal is completely clean... a health freak"
  Fiction, pure and simple.
  2."If he chooses coffee, he will have to give up his hobbies."
  More fiction. Why? How would you relate drinking coffee to hobbies? I drink barrels of the stufff and have my hobbies.
 3."If he chooses cigs, he will have to give up his job."
  More fiction. Why would I have to give up a job to smoke? I`ve smoked acres of the stuff and never had it be an issue one way or the other.
  3. "If he chooses heroin, he will have to give up his family."
  This might be the closest you came to reality, although it`s still fiction.  It would be more like the family giving up on the addict.
  Point I am trying to make here is that you are not making any sense in terms of reality. I could come up with all sorts of ficticious scenarios, but it would not relate to what we are discussing here.
 4."The result is a no-brainer. He will choose heroin, and give up all three."
  More fiction.
  5." Practically a dead-to-rights given.... requires little imagination."
  I guess in your fiction story you could get the results to turn out any way you wish, but still would not relate to reality or what is being discussed in terms of the real world. It might not "require" any imagination, but I would say you have used a heaping helping of it in this case.

[rpm]

Jackal, I think you misunderstood what Nash was saying. Those were the pricetags for each choice, not what the natural result would be. It's like paying $100,000 for a Lamborghini or $20,000 for a Chevy. I know that's a poor analogy, but that was his point.

[Nash]

Exactly, rpm.

I mean duh... As if coffee drinkers have no hobbies and all the smokers are out of work. Jesious.

Jackal.... this is about the third response now from you saying that I aint talking about whatever it is you think is supposed to be the real issue here.... so do me a favour and clue me in on what that is. Mmmmkay?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rpm
Jackal, I think you misunderstood what Nash was saying. Those were the pricetags for each choice, not what the natural result would be. It's like paying $100,000 for a Lamborghini or $20,000 for a Chevy. I know that's a poor analogy, but that was his point.

  Yea, I know, but I don`t see where writing a fiction novel has anything to do with the real world or how it pertains here. I can come up with all sorts of fictional BS that pertains to nothing, but not really interested in that.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Nash
Exactly, rpm.

I mean duh... As if coffee drinkers have no hobbies and all the smokers are out of work. Jesious.

Jackal.... this is about the third response now from you saying that I aint talking about whatever it is you think is supposed to be the real issue here.... so do me a favour and clue me in on what that is. Mmmmkay?

  I think it might be a lost cause with you bud. You don`t seem to be able to keep a thought train on the track. You keep drifting off into Fantasy Land on the Happy Town ride.
  I think I`ll just  pay a little visit to Juan Valdez and have a smoke instead.

[Nash]

You have no idea what yer tryin' to say, do you?

"What you just posted makes absolutely no sense and has nothing to do with what we were discussing."

"I guess in your fiction story you could get the results to turn out any way you wish, but still would not relate to reality or what is being discussed in terms of the real world."

" I can come up with all sorts of fictional BS that pertains to nothing, but not really interested in that."

"You keep drifting off into Fantasy Land on the Happy Town ride."

Yet not once have you tried to say why that is. You just toss those out there, and leave it at that... as if the point you're trying to make is somehow so self-evident.

But I call yer bluff. You're full of it.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
That's pretty much how I think nash, but I keep hearing all of these "statistics" and it makes me wonder about the numbers and the yardstick used.

Yes more people die from smoking every year BUT more people smoke than shoot heroin.  More people drink coffee than smoke but less die as a result of it and more people can go without it.

A heck of a lot of people try smoking as it used to be "glamorized" by Hollywood. It was the "cool" thing to do. Narcotics use usually has been villified by Hollywood.

How many prostitutes do you think sell their bodies on account of their heroin addiction? How about nicotine?
How many of those steal from others for their heroin addiction?
How about for nicotine?
How about kill others for their respective addictions?

Nicotine addiction is tough, but one doesn't feel like they are going to die without it. Heroin does that, and all it takes in some cases is just one dose.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Nash
Yet not once have you tried to say why that is. You just toss those out there, and leave it at that... as if the point you're trying to make is somehow so self-evident.

But I call yer bluff. You're full of it.

  Let me use one of your more intelligent comments-----> Well Duh. That about sums it up.
  It is self evident if you were to take the time to read the posts. I`m not paid to school you tard.  Now carry on. Have a goodun.

[Gunslinger]

Jackal you will get no were arguing with Nash but u havnt responded to a single one of my answers.

[Nash]

Nor mine.

I got a feeling that whatever point he might have been trying to make somewhere in this thread either got crushed, or, that he suddenly realized that his mysterio point didn't make any sense in the first place...

... and has been bamboozling us ever since by trying to pretend that there is some golden nugget of info buried somewhere deep in this thread that we were just too dense to find. Ten or so dodges inna row should tell ya something.

He sounds like one of these "experts" we were talking about earlier. But heck, what do I know... and who am I to try to bring my perspective to this. He obviously knows better.

[Toad]

Nash, could you clean that up a a bit, copyright it and maybe sell the whole post?

I'd probably buy it just to use it the next time Beetle does the same.