HiTech can you explain why

[mars01]

Not sure if it would work in a Pitts. I've done them in an Extra 300.

Yeah they are doable in a pitts.  Can't wait!  lol.

Lucky bastig with Extra time!!!!

[jigsaw]

Originally posted by mars01
Yeah they are doable in a pitts.  Can't wait!  lol.

Lucky bastig with Extra time!!!!

Expensive ride, but worth every penny. Here's a link to the guys I flew with that has a description and video of the maneuver.

http://www.fightercombat.com/vid_03Sep04.htm

If I can ever afford it, I'd like to get enough training to compete. I'll be going back there late this year or early next year for recurrent training on emergency maneuvers.

I should get off my butt one of these days and add some clips from the inflight vids of my flights to my website.

Let me know how it goes in the Pitts.

[Golfer]

If i had a working scanner i'd post me with an Extra-200.  FUN airplane.  It was the line service staff's duty and god given right to beg for airplane rides when the annual Ohio Aerobatic Open came to town in Columbus.

I was stacking a hangar when a guy pulled his extra 200 to the front of the hangar and let it run.  I went over and asked if he needed any help...he was running the engine to recharge the battery (his wife had accidentally turned off the alternator during the flight from chicago) and I said "if you're going to just run the engine how about a ride?"  I got into the parachute strapped in and away we went to salvage the last 20 minutes of daylight (Day VFR only airplane).  Did my first hammerhead, loop and point rolls in that airplane.  It's logged in the first page of my logbook... Extra 200, 0.5 hrs, Aerobatic Intro.  I was a student pilot with about 5 hrs total time then...and I still remember that flight!

Anyone wanna donate an Extra 200 to me?  Rides for the AH community on the house!

[mars01]

If I can ever afford it, I'd like to get enough training to compete. I'll be going back there late this year or early next year for recurrent training on emergency maneuvers.

Yeah rgr that same here.  I have been looking at getting an Eagle or S2B to compete but need at least 25 hours in type just to get moderately affordable insurance.  Fingers crossed.  


Good Luck to you too.

[MANDO]

Actually with Fw190D9, I perform pretty good HH in the following way:

1 - start the zoom up and keep both wingtips at the same distance of the horizon.
2 - Once near stall, try to be sure that the plane is not rolling neither yawing at all. If not possible, try to minimize these rotations.
4 - Cut engine and dont touch any control until nose drops.
5 - Start engine while the nose is falling below the horizon.

This method results in a nasty flotating effect with 110G and some other planes. With 190A8 the umpowered reversal is slower than with D9.

[Wotan]

Turn your engine off?

I suspect if I told told you in my words how to do a hammerhead  you would want to argue about it. So here is an old thread in which Andy Bush descrides how to do a perfect  left hammerhead (clockwise rotating engine).

Let's put aside the question of whether or not the hammerhead is tactically sound and just deal with the mechanics of how it is flown.

First, the usual statement that what applies to real life may or may not apply to a sim...it all depends on how "realistically" the sim flight model is programmed.

Putting that aside also, now let's consider what is going on when we try to fly this maneuver. The hammerhead is not your "normal" aerobatic maneuver in the sense that you can just point the aircraft where you want it and expect everything to work out more or less as expected. This is especially true of prop driven aircraft.

In a prop aircraft, two forces are acting on the aircraft and must be accounted for. One is engine gyroscopic precession...this produces something that is often called "torque". The second is the effect of the prop driven airflow ("propwash") on the aircraft itself. These two forces produce distinctly different results and depend on which way the prop rotates. When you choose which fighter you want to fly, make sure you note which way the prop rotates. Most US, Brit, and German engines rotate clockwise.

Let's take propwash first. A clockwise rotating engine will produce a propwash that will try to push (yaw) the nose LEFT. This is a main reason why we need right rudder when taking off. It will be much easier to yaw the plane left than to the right for a clockwise rotating engine.

Now, gyro precession. This effect produces a pitch movement when yaw is applied to the aircraft. For a clockwise rotating engine, left yaw cause the nose to pitch UP...right yaw causes the aircraft to pitch down.

One more thing happens in a hammerhead that is not usually seen in other maneuvers...the wings produce different amounts of lift. In a hammerhead, one wing is going "down", and the other is going "up". The "up" going wing produces more lift than the other wing. This creates a tendency to roll and must be corrected for in the hammerhead to keep the plane from rolling over on to its "back".

All right! Back to the maneuver! Tactically, I suggest that you not pull the power off when starting the climb. The idea here is to gain or maintain vertical separation on the bandit chasing you. Pulling the power off is contrary to maintaining this separation.

Next, you want to fly a vertical flight path. To do this, once you have the nose pointed straight up, you are going to have to unload your G to zero...otherwise you will pitch over on your back. Holding G in our sims is hard since we can't "feel" the seat pressures. Sometimes an external view that allows you to see the horizon helps you maintain your vertical attitude. Either that, or set the time at 12:00 noon and fly at the sun!

Then fly that attitude until below 100mph...that's just technique and will keep you from beginning the maneuver too soon.

Now you are ready to begin the maneuver. The hammerhead is flown as a three part maneuver. Step one, then step two, then step three. NOT a simultaneous maneuver!

Step one is to use rudder to yaw the aircraft in the desired direction. Which direction? The one that your engine rotation propwash makes easiest...for most planes, LEFT! How much rudder? All of it. How do you put the rudder in? Smoothly and quickly...BUT DO NOT "KICK" THE RUDDER PEDAL!!! This is a common expression and is pure BS...there is no maneuver flown where the pilot "kicks" anything! Push the rudder completely forward to the stop aggressively. This should start the aircraft into a yawing motion.

Step two is to use aileron to counter the tendency of the "up" wing to try to roll you over on your back. How much aileron to use? All of it. How should you put it in? Smoothly and aggressvely, but do not slam the stick sideways!

Step three is to use pitch (stick pressure) to offset gyroscopic precession. Which way do you move the stick? Depends on engine rotation direction! Let's stick with our clockwise rotating engine! Forward (nose down) for a left hammerhead...backstick (nose up) for a right hammerhead.

OK. Here it is for a clockwise rotating engine and a left hammerhead:

1. Push and hold full left rudder.

2. Push and hold full right aileron.

3. Then a little bit of forward stick as needed to prevent any pitching movement.

4. Hold these controls in until you approach about 45 degrees from straight down. Then smoothly reverse the rudder completely...in a left hammerhead, you now want to go full right rudder to stop the yaw as you reach a vertical attitude. Once the rudder is reversed, then neutralize your pitch input as you also neutralize your aileron.

Whew!!

Give it a shot and see how it works out!

From this thread in which you even made a post:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43439&highlight=hammerhead

I haven't played AH in a while but back in AH1 after reading the thread I linked I practicedoffline and was able to pull off just what Andy descrides in the G2, G6, A5, A8 and D9.

I recently looked up that thread to refresh myself for doing them in FB/AEp/PF.

In AH remember to turn off ccombat trim.

What you described in your last post isn't a hammerhead.

[Straiga]

If I knew you guys about 4 years back I had a Pitts magnum 500 HP four bladed black max props, constant speed with inverted fuel and oil. Oh a smoker also. It was all black with orange and yellow to purple flams all around. My friends flew it for gas and maintenace help.
Then I sold it to a guy he was trying to do a lomcevak and sheared the crankshaft. He came out of it inverted about 20 ft off the ground and rolled it level and flew it into a T-Hanger between a Cherokee 6 and a BE-55. He hit the back off the left side of the hanger and clean off all the jugs from the left side of the engine, and left wings. Then stopped on the back wall while the tail went the right, crushing the right wings, only to shear of the tail on the right side of the hanger. It was a nice parking job to be able to walk away from it.

Straiga

[Golfer]

Originally posted by Straiga
If I knew you guys about 4 years back I had a Pitts magnum 500 HP four bladed black max props, constant speed with inverted fuel and oil. Oh a smoker also. It was all black with orange and yellow to purple flams all around. My friends flew it for gas and maintenace help.
Then I sold it to a guy he was trying to do a lomcevak and sheared the crankshaft. He came out of it inverted about 20 ft off the ground and rolled it level and flew it into a T-Hanger between a Cherokee 6 and a BE-55. He hit the back off the left side of the hanger and clean off all the jugs from the left side of the engine, and left wings. Then stopped on the back wall while the tail went the right, crushing the right wings, only to shear of the tail on the right side of the hanger. It was a nice parking job to be able to walk away from it.

Straiga

At least he was kind enough to save you the trouble of worrying over the cost of your next annual.

Straiga-Do you have any electronic format information on the King Air 350...I'm googling my brains out and can't find anything reliable.  I put in for a FO job in a 350 for a real estate developer and have what I think is a good shot at it and it couldn't hurt to brush up on anything.  I've got all the BE10 stuff I could dream of, but I've never even so much as fueled a 350.

[Kweassa]

Then how about this one?

 When you fly the Ta152H-1 into a most straight vertical, after the apex of the climb where the plane meets the stall, the Ta starts to tailslide straight down.

 During this phase, the controls fail to respond, and the plane decends like a crucifix falling from heaven. I have to turn the engine off, and sort of yank the stick around to 'destabilize' the plane from the cruciform so it wobbles around, and somehow gets the nose downwards. If left untouched, the plane does not correct itself, and the plane falls as if to plant a cross at Golgotha.

 Can a prop plane fall from the sky like that??

[Straiga]

All I have on disk is the B-767-300ER, CPT and systems and Pegasus GFMS. I also have the DC-10-10 and -30 CPT and systems and the HT-9100 GFMS. All I have in the way of King Airs are the manuals I get from company. But I would probable be able to get you a 350 manual from SIMCOM in Scottsdale Az. for about $250 to $350. You have to go to these places in order to get the books or they think you are Osama if they dont know you.

E-mail me

Straiga

[MANDO]

Originally posted by Wotan
What you described in your last post isn't a hammerhead.

You can argue about the procedure, but with D9 the effect is a perfect hammer head. With engine on I got nasty effects 2 of every 3 times.

[MANDO]

Originally posted by Kweassa
During this phase, the controls fail to respond, and the plane decends like a crucifix falling from heaven.

Propwash should be enough to make your rudder effective to "exit" (''destabilize') your pure vertical fall.

[mars01]

If I knew you guys about 4 years back I had a Pitts magnum 500 HP four bladed black max props, constant speed with inverted fuel and oil. Oh a smoker also. It was all black with orange and yellow to purple flams all around. My friends flew it for gas and maintenace help.
Then I sold it to a guy he was trying to do a lomcevak and sheared the crankshaft. He came out of it inverted about 20 ft off the ground and rolled it level and flew it into a T-Hanger between a Cherokee 6 and a BE-55. He hit the back off the left side of the hanger and clean off all the jugs from the left side of the engine, and left wings. Then stopped on the back wall while the tail went the right, crushing the right wings, only to shear of the tail on the right side of the hanger. It was a nice parking job to be able to walk away from it.

Wow 500 HP on a Pitts that must have been sick.  What motor?  I'm suprised with the 4 blade he still sheared the crank, total bummer.  Did you compete at all?

[mars01]

You can argue about the procedure, but with D9 the effect is a perfect hammer head. With engine on I got nasty effects 2 of every 3 times.

Not sure about the D9, but I have noticed that I can not do hammer heads in the Extra with full power in MSFS.  I pull the power about half way not completely back.

[Golfer]

You don't shut down your engine during any aerobatic maneuver unless you're Bob Hoover.  You're not.

During a hammerhead, the airplane does not "fall" onto its side, but it is flown around the apogee of the upline.  I think that is where your biggest misconception lies.  It may 'look' like the way a hammerhead should look to you...but it's not.  A real hammerhead is done going Vwaytoofast and a manyG pull into the upline.  Ride it up until you're out of indicated airspeed and its Left rudder, right aileron and forward elevator smoothly and in that order (it ony takes a second to have all the controls where they need to be) and WHEEEEE around you go.

Tail slides in any airplane in game aren't really any big deal, torque rolls are fun.  The 'correct' and 'perfect' hammerhead have eluded me for the entire time i've been playing flight games and sims.  The modeling just isn't there.  I can only imagine how difficult it would be to run all the aerodynamic tests on each airplane and then figure out how to program the way this that and everything else need to be.  Each maneuver is never the same.

A fellow I worked for/Squaddie/Aerobatic champ had an S1C pitts with the little 180 hp motor...modified.  Put out in excess of 350hp.  Huge carb, different camshaft, wicked high compression ect ect...he's an IA and did all the work himself...never got to see it fly but did see a photo and heard the stories, over and over and over and over.