Author Topic: P38 Ace Major T.McGuire Controversy (Read 926 times)

Happy1 · « **on:** January 06, 2005, 11:52:54 AM »

What really happened to cause the demise of Major McGuire, the 2nd highest P38 ace? Find out at:

http://www.aerothentic.com/history/articles/McGuire.htm

Enjoy the on-going speculation/controversy.

Cheers,

Happy1

Wolf14 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2005, 12:42:54 PM »

Good Read

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2005, 01:00:30 PM »

Basically, he has no clue as to how McGuire died. If you really want a more detailed report that pretty much confirms Weaver's side of the engagement, ask Widewing or Savage to post the crash report.

ack-ack

Nomde · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2005, 01:09:22 PM »

Very interesting article Happy1

Delirium · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2005, 01:28:28 PM »

I know, his auto-retract flaps went up and he spun out.

Jests towards HTC aside, it is unfortunate the two most successful aces (and P38 aces at that) didn't live to see old age.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2005, 03:19:56 PM »

It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)

Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.

Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.

I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.

I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best

Dan/Slack

2stony · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2005, 03:33:56 PM »

The American Fighter Aces ablum says the following in McGuire's biography.

"Attacking a Zeke at tree-top altitude over Los Negros Island on 7 January 1945, he entered a high-speed stall and crashed into the jungle."

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2005, 09:48:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)

Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.

Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.

I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.

I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best

Dan/Slack

I would love to recreate something like that and other missions like the hunt for Yamamoto. It gives us a chance to play virtual historical detective.

I don't think I'd last very long with full drop tanks on the deck in a turn fight with a Zeke or a Ki-84. But if something like this is recreated in the game, I'd be willing to break out my dual throttle and see if I can get my plane to stall like his did.

ack-ack

Scherf · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:03:01 PM »

What is this "dual throttle" of which you speak, Ack-Ack? Is it supported by AH?

Cheers,

Scherf

XtrmeJ · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:57:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)

Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.

Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.

I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.

I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best

Dan/Slack

That would be pretty fun I'd have to say.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2005, 12:12:59 AM »

OK so how do we get it set up? I'd love to see how a virtual McGuire's last flight would turn out

Dan/Slack

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2005, 10:26:46 AM »

Maybe we should float this idea past the AH Scenario team and see if it's doable.

ack-ack

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2005, 10:27:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Scherf
What is this "dual throttle" of which you speak, Ack-Ack? Is it supported by AH?

Cheers,

Scherf

Old Suncom F-15 dual throttle that I have.

ack-ack

Nomde · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2005, 12:09:29 PM »

I'd say this was a good idea if all the "variables" were true to real life. But as it is, any outcome would be subjective at best and in no way could be used as a possible recreation.

That being said, it sounds fun as long as that is what it's taken for...fun

Delirium · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2005, 08:23:18 AM »

Let me know, I'd be up for it too... I have the CH Throttle Quadrant and can control each engine's throttle and RPMs.

Come to think of it, we really can't recreate it accurately secondary as the cream of the Japanese air assets had already been killed in January '45. Most of the AH flyers have alot more hours and experience than the Japanese flyers did in Jan '45, heck, probably more than the Allied flyers as well.

However, with enough alt, I think a good team of 38s might be able to pull it off but with a complete rewrite of history using the vertical after a brief dive to set up a good cherry pick.

Oh, and ignore what Rust says... I'm no good in the P38 or anything else.