Author Topic: Rough Landing Iraq  (Read 781 times)

Offline Gixer

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Rough Landing Iraq
« on: January 08, 2005, 03:37:14 AM »
"At an American military airfield in Iraq, work was being done on the runway, but no one had bothered to issue a NOTAM (notice to airmen). Aircraft landing during the day were able to avoid the work site, but a C-130 came in at night on December 29th, hit the work area, and was totalled. There were several injuries among the crew and passengers, but no fatalities. There will, however, be some fatal effects on the career prospects of one or more air force officers (the ones responsible for distributing NOTAM information"






...-Gixer

Offline SunTracker

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2005, 03:43:08 AM »
You have landed successfully.

Offline Nilsen

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2005, 03:54:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
You have landed successfully.


LOL! :D :D

Offline scout

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2005, 04:58:14 AM »
<.e>

Offline Raubvogel

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2005, 05:04:37 AM »
Eh, it's an old H model, no loss heh.

Offline JB88

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2005, 05:24:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
You have landed successfully.



ROFLMAO
this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline APDrone

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2005, 07:27:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
You have landed successfully.


:rofl :rofl :rofl
AKDrone

Scenario "Battle of Britain" 602nd Squadron


Offline Gunslinger

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2005, 12:27:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raubvogel
Eh, it's an old H model, no loss heh.


U sure?  I know it doesnt have the upgraded props but what's up with the long nose one it?

Offline Nefarious

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2005, 12:36:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
U sure?  I know it doesnt have the upgraded props but what's up with the long nose one it?


Possibly some Elint Bird?
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2005, 12:44:02 PM »
*in my best Forrest Gump voice*

"Momma used to say Stupid is as Stupid does, that's what Momma used to say."

They should cut nards off over that, But...then again it'll be hushed up to protect Officers careers.

Mac

Offline Furball

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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2005, 01:13:26 PM »
and americans wonder how they get their 'dumb' reputation ;)
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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Offline eagl

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2005, 01:32:07 PM »
AWMac you're talking/acting like a tool.  There will probably be an SIB and an AIB, quite possibly followed by an FEB, especially if this is considered a non-combat-related loss.  A pilot is supposed to KNOW everything there is about where they're going to, notams or not.

Suggesting a coverup in a mishap of this type to protect the career of an officer, and your comments in another thread, tells me you've got a chip on your shoulder about officers for some reason.

If you're active duty, I strongly suggest you get over it or get out before you impress your biases onto any young troops.  Seriously, the military isn't in the best shape and attitudes like yours are part of the problem.  If you have a problem with a particular officer, take it up with your chain, the IG, or if you must, blow the whistle to your congressman.  But don't spread this kind of BS around because it does more to destroy our military than any hundred enemy could.  You've bagged on officers in at least 2 threads so it's clear you've got a problem to deal with.  Please don't spread that kind of nonsense here.  If you're in the kind of shop that actually believes the normal bit*hing and griping about officers, you've been misled by your peers and immediate supervisors.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Golfer

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2005, 01:40:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
A pilot is supposed to KNOW everything there is about where they're going to, notams or not.
 


Sure, the PIC is responsible.  I assure you that NO tickets would be pulled if this.

It's the pilots job to check Wx, notams and airspace restrictions as well as be familiar with the airport.  If no information is published about there being a huge hole in the middle of the runway then its not on the pilot.

It's on the airport manager to do that.

It would've been nice if the controllers mentioned something about the big giant aircraft eating hole in the runway, but that isn't their job either.  It would be nice if it was on the ATIS, but still not their responsiblity.  ATCs job is seperation of aircraft...period.

The pilots aren't going to get in a lick of trouble for this.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2005, 02:03:35 PM »
Golfer,

Without knowing all the facts, all I'll say is don't be too sure about that.  A guy I know punched from a jet that went out of control due to a nut that was installed without a cotter pin, and the wing CC nearly ripped his head off before the investigation was completed.  In fact, the cause of the mishap wasn't even determined until the last days of the investigation and was largely a lucky find.  If someone hadn't noticed the missing bolt and no sign of the pin/safety wire, the pilot would have roasted even though he did everything right and saved not only his own life but the life of his WSO.

Everyone's on edge in the military nowadays and the top leadership always wants someone to focus the blame on.  Always.  If there isn't anyone else to blame, a lot of times someone decides that it must be the pilot's fault because like a ship's captain, in the end it's his responsibility to safely conduct the flight.

The accountability pendulum has swung full scale to the ludicrous side...  There is a new voluntary USAFE program "combat wingman" where people are supposed to have a buddy to help them keep out of trouble, avoid DUIs, etc.  Nobody in their right mind will participate however because it's only a matter of time before someone who did NOTHING WRONG is prosecuted for someone else's crime simply because they were supposed to be their "combat wingman".  

A pilot I know got a formal reprimand for... get this... doing nothing wrong.  A group of young aircrew, some pilots, some WSOs, 3 Lts and a captain, went out to a pub.  One of the Lts was the designated driver so he applied the common sense rule of thumb, one drink per hour, padded it by 2 hours, and they figured it was a good plan.  The driver had one or two drinks, and about 4 hours later they drove home.  On the way back, they got stopped by the police for something stupid, a busted tail light or something, and the driver blew a very low number on the breathalyzer.  By default that means they all get hauled off to jail for blood tests.  The blood test comes back well below the legal limit, and they're released.

The Captain decided he'd be a good officer and report the incident to his superiors just to make sure they heard it from him first.  The end result was all 4 got formal reprimands and the Captain got particular attention for not exercising the judgement in according to his position as the ranking officer in the group, even though no crime was committed, they had a plan to safely go out and come home, and they followed through with their plan.

WTF, over?

Well, that's the state of "accountability" in the US military.  It's ludicrous and it covers not only DUIs, but operational mishaps as well.  Any time something goes wrong, even if it's a simple mistake that has zero real consequences in terms of injury or damage, someone is going to roast.

I blame congress for putting our senior leadership into the position of having to demand this kind of pseudo-accountability and micromanagement, but I'm just a pawn like every other pawn so my opinion doesn't mean crap.  I just have to cover my prettythang and try to cover for anyone working for me because I have no confidence that anyone above me will stick their neck out on my behalf.  Some commanders are better than others and there are a few supervisors and commanders that I trust without question, but they're in the minority.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Golfer

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Rough Landing Iraq
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2005, 02:13:07 PM »
Quote
The Captain decided he'd be a good officer and report the incident to his superiors just to make sure they heard it from him first. The end result was all 4 got formal reprimands and the Captain got particular attention for not exercising the judgement in according to his position as the ranking officer in the group, even though no crime was committed, they had a plan to safely go out and come home, and they followed through with their plan.


Ok, I'm the superior officer and I get the report.  I've got the Captain standing in front of me:

He just told me that he went out drinking with some other officers...K
Had a Designated Driver...K, good.
Designated Driver had been drinking...Oh?  (DD's don't drink in my book)
The DD blew a positive on the breathalyzer...thats not good.  Regardless of 'legal limit' he's still under the influence of the alcohol like it or not.
While nobody was 'legally drunk' the DD had been drinking and was driving.  I'd say they got off fairly with a reprimand.

The Captain could've used his judgement to decide or agree beforehand that the DD would not drink (Most bars around here DD's get free sodas) since he's got to drive.  Had there been an accident, tox reports would have showed alcohol in his system and thats the end of that.

I'd say its fair, and nobody was hurt but it should be a learning experience.  DD's don't drink.