Author Topic: "Flyboys" by James Bradley  (Read 638 times)

Offline FiLtH

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« on: January 10, 2005, 02:42:38 PM »
Has anyone read this book?  I know its been out for a year or so but I got it for Christmas. I couldnt put it down. Its the best book Ive read in awhile.

    At first, some of the things he said kind of made me a little angry, but as I read it, it really shined a light on the US's part in molding the way the Japanese developed into the way they did before WW2.

    To me racism was something where you thought less of the other race than your own. The book made me realise its much deeper than just that. Where not only do you dislike them, but you NEVER want them to achieve parity with your race, and do whatever it takes to keep them at a lower level. Forgive me if this is obvious to you, it wasnt to me. Atleast with the Japanese. They tried to copy the way the west "expanded" their territories, by military might, but when they tried it on China, the West said "No!!..thats not how civilized nations act."  

   The book focuses on the lives of navy airmen shot down at Chichi Jima. Their pre-war lives, training, capture and executions. At the end of the book, it tells of one Japanese man who befriended one of the captured US flyers, and was saddened by his execution. How he would somehow find a way to keep his memory alive. Apparantly he took the flyers first name as his own after the war. WHen I finished reading it, my wife sitting beside me on the couch, I had all I could do to keep from balling right there.

    Ive read alot about WW2, but never anything so vicious, but at the same time human before. I recommend it to anyone.

~AoM~

Offline MOSQ

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2005, 03:33:58 PM »
I concur, it's an excellent book. All of your comments are right on. In addition, I really liked the thorough explanation of the change in Japanese military thinking from the Samurai days to the post Russian war military culture. I never realized these things before.

I too was mad about some of the statements in the first few chapters, but had a new perspective by the last chapter......

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2005, 03:35:43 PM »
Read the Advanced Readers Copy my brother gave to me more than 2 years ago.  Awesome read.

Karaya
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Offline Angus

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2005, 06:25:01 PM »
Did anyone read Irvine Shaw's "Young Lions" ?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline oboe

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2005, 07:23:36 PM »
It took me a while to get through "Flyboys" because I'd have to put it down for a while when it got so disturbing.   Eating human flesh to prove your worthiness as a warrior?

And what the white settlers did to the natives in North America was far beyond simple cruelty, and I sure never learned much about those massacres when I was taught U S history.

Offline FiLtH

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 08:51:38 PM »
Exactly Oboe, history is taught by the victors..we've all got dark spots in our histories.

~AoM~

Offline United

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2005, 09:09:42 PM »
I read it last year.  It was an excellent read, but slow at the beginning.  I'm not much of a fan of the previous history before WWII, but it was interesting nonetheless.

Offline Eagler

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2005, 09:38:22 PM »
I barely made it through it ...

Seemed like the author was trying to justify 20th century barbaric Japanese behavior by comparing to 19th century behavior of others ...

To compare them was in many ways a stretch at best and usually ludicrous

I think his writings push his agenda:
http://www.jamesbradley.com/scholarships.cfm

read the reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316105848/qid=1105414622/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-9401484-6814455?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
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Offline FiLtH

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2005, 11:31:52 PM »
Eagler thats exactly the attitude I had at first. But you have to agree that we have done some nasty sh-t ourselves. There was a period in our expansion that was on par with some of the most brutal acts of other civilizations throughout history.

 Believe me..I was weened on John Wayne movies, and as gung-ho patriotic as the next guy...but I wont deny the fact we stole the land from the American Indians as well as treated people in other countries terribly (Phillipines) as well.

~AoM~

Offline detch01

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2005, 11:57:23 PM »
FiLtH, havent read it yet but it just got bumped up to next on my list of acquisitions. Thx for the recommend :).
Re: racism/barbarity. I don't think there's a people on the planet, or ever been for that matter, that doesn't have that in their histories or future - mine included. We're still not that far removed from the cave even though we've got some pretty cool toys. It's gonna be awhile unfortunately.



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Offline Masherbrum

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2005, 09:56:56 AM »
A great read is "A Question of Honor" by Lynne Olson and Stanley Cloud.  It is about the Polish 303 Squadron.  Awesome book.

Another would have to be "Given Up for Dead" by Bill Sloan.  It is about Wake Island right after Pearl Harbor.  Even more astounding.

Karaya

PS - I used to communicate with James Bradley through his website.  Now, we just email each other from time to time.  He is a nice guy.
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Offline Paul

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2005, 01:46:18 PM »
That book really enlightened me. I didn't know a thing about Japaneese culture before I read it.

Great book, I would reccomend reading it to those who haven't.

,
Paul

Offline MOSQ

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2005, 04:36:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
I barely made it through it ...

Seemed like the author was trying to justify 20th century barbaric Japanese behavior by comparing to 19th century behavior of others ...

To compare them was in many ways a stretch at best and usually ludicrous

I think his writings push his agenda:
http://www.jamesbradley.com/scholarships.cfm

read the reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316105848/qid=1105414622/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-9401484-6814455?v=glance&s=books&n=507846



Hmmm, it was Sept. 1901 when the US Army executed every male age 10 or older in captured Phillipine villages.

Only 38 years before WII formally started.

Offline Charon

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2005, 10:03:00 PM »
I know what he was getting at and most points were valid (though unpleasant), but he did reach on a few. The Bismark Sea for example, which he sees as another "war crime" type activity.

He talks about the Japanese unwillingness to surrender. And yet, here are thousands of combat troops floating in the sea, many in life boats and rafts and with their small arms, within a not unreasonable sailing distance of where they were heading for on the transports.

They were strafed. but, what was the alternative?

1. Try to capture them and take them prisoner? You just end up shooting them one at a time or in smaller handfulls.

2. Let them make shore? Kinda defeats the point. [As it was 1,000 (of the 9,000) did make it ashore at Lea]

3. Let them float around in the sea lanes?

Combat troops, in sailable craft, in a war zone who are unwilling to surrender are still combatants.

Still, for all the culutural relavatism (some accurate some forced) he did lay the blame squarely on the Japanese leadership and did feel the bombing campaigs and atomic bombs were the only valid alternatives -- which caught me by surprise given the first half of the book.

Charon
« Last Edit: January 11, 2005, 10:12:51 PM by Charon »

Offline FiLtH

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"Flyboys" by James Bradley
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2005, 11:19:16 PM »
Ya Charon...omce the war was on, gloves off..but what I found most interesting was the mind set that the Japanese had, to make the decisions they made.

~AoM~