I remember some old posts discussing the AH's Spitfire IX as a Spitfire F.IX

[Wotan]

Didn't all Spitfire F.IX (merlin 61, 63, 63a) have the 'c' wing with  two 20-mm. and four .303-in. guns?

In AH doesn't the Spit 9 have the option of 4 x .303s or 2 x .50?

Would that mean its correct deisgnation would be  Spitfire F.IXe?

Is there a such thing as a Spitfire F.IXe?

I know there's the LF IX (e) Merlin 66; two 20-mm. and two .5-in. guns. and HF IX (e) Merlin 70; two 20-mm. and two .5-in. guns. But is Spitfire F.IXe a proper designation?

TIA

[GRUNHERZ]

I propse that our Spit 9 have 2 50cals and 4 303, problem solved...

[Guppy35]

There were FIXe's and HFIXes.  Not many as the LFIX was the preferable aircraft considering the alt the war was being fought at.  

The E wing replaced the Universal "C" Wing not too long after D-Day.  It was NOT referred to as the C wing with the IX or any other variant other then the Spit V.  It was referred to as the Universal wing.

124 Squadron as an example had HFIXes.

The Dutch, postwar, operated a mix of LF, F and HF IXs.  

Dan/Slack

Using this as an excuse to wish for a clipped wing LFIXe or LFXVIe

[Wotan]

So the proper (historically accurrate) designations for the Spitfire F.IX are:

Spitfire F.IX(without the 'c') (2 x 20mm, 4 x .303)
Spitfire F.IXe (2 x 20mm. 2 x .50)

I have read where there really wasn't a Spitfire F.IXc desigination.

What are the squadron service dates for both?

EDIT

I guess what I am looking for is the 'official' designations for the Spitfire F.IX with the 'C' or 'universal' wing and the  Spitfire F.IX with the 'e' wing...

[Karnak]

Wotan,

The AH Spitfire Mk IX is a Merlin 61 Spitfire F.Mk IX that can either have the correct Universal Wing or the incorrect "e" wing.  To the best of my knowledge, no Merlin 61 Spitfire was armed with .50 cals.  It should also not have the option for the rockets.


Really what AH should have is a Merlin 66 Spitfire LF.Mk IX with the option for either the Universal Wing or the "e" wing.  The Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX is just silly.  It is barely any faster than our overboosted 1942 Spitfire Mk V and less than 350 were built.

With AH2 speed has become, by far, the most dominant performance aspect of a fighter and where the Spitfire LF.Mk IX may have been too good for AH1, it would be, if anything, an underperforming unit in AH2.

[Karnak]

Your second post showed up while I wrote.

In the years since WWII it has become pretty standard to refer to the Spitfire MK IX with the Univesal Wing as a Spitfire F.Mk IXc or Spitfire LF.Mk IXc or Spitfire HF.Mk IXc, depending on the engine(s).

I believe that during the war you would have simply had the Spitfire F.Mk IX, Spitfire LF.Mk IX, Spitfire HF.Mk IX, Spitfire F.Mk IXe, Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and Spitfire HF.Mk IXe.

[Wotan]

Ok I am confused more...

Guppy wrote:

The E wing replaced the Universal "C" Wing not too long after D-Day. It was NOT referred to as the C wing with the IX or any other variant other then the Spit V. It was referred to as the Universal wing.

I know there were:

F IX Merlin 61; 63 or 63A; two 20-mm. and four .303-in. guns.

The above is what we have in AH

LF IX Merlin 66; two 20-mm. and four .303-in. guns.
LF IX (e) Merlin 66; two 20-mm. and two .5-in. guns.

and

HF IX Merlin 70; two 20-mm. and four .303-in. guns.
HF IX (e)Merlin 70; two 20-mm. and two .5-in. guns.

Karnak says:

To the best of my knowledge, no Merlin 61 Spitfire was armed with .50 cals.

So if there were only 350 F.IX (Merlin 61) armed only with 2 x 20mm and 4 x .303 then does this mean that there were no Spitifre F.IXe (none armed with 2 x 20mm and 2 x .50)?

Could you have an 'e' wing and be armed with 4 x .303 rather then the 2 x .50?

My assumption had been based I what I read on this forum and else where that the Spitfire F.IX was only armed with 2 x 20mm and 4 x .303 ('C' or 'universal' wing). Some one on another forum mentioned that there were Spifire F.IXc's amd Spifire F.IXe[/e]'s that saw service in '44.

I know about the LF.IXe and HF.IXe's. Am I correct in thinking the "C" was never an official designation ie

LF.IXc
HF.IXc

These were just designated as:

LF.IX
HF.IX

Implying the universal wing...?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Wotan
So the proper (historically accurrate) designations for the Spitfire F.IX are:

Spitfire F.IX(without the 'c') (2 x 20mm, 4 x .303)
Spitfire F.IXe (2 x 20mm. 2 x .50)

I have read where there really wasn't a Spitfire F.IXc desigination.

What are the squadron service dates for both?

EDIT

I guess what I am looking for is the 'official' designations for the Spitfire F.IX with the 'C' or 'universal' wing and the  Spitfire F.IX with the 'e' wing...

A while back on the Flypast Forum I opened the debate on this with the Spit fanatics there.  Peter Arnold, one of the real Spit experts out there, who I got to know through my Spit XII research, responded as did others.  Mr. Arnold goes by Mark12.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20000

We reached the consensus that there was no C designation for the IX or any other Spit beyond the V.  So the official designations would have been LFIX, FIX, HFIX, LFIXe, FIXe, HFIXe.

Image from that Flypast thread, in case you didn't visit it.  From the official Air Publications used for the Spitfire IX by the RAF.  Note the designations.

It does seem to suggest there was no FIXe however  Another reason for AH to get an LFIXe
Dan/Slack

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Wotan
Ok I am confused more...

Could you have an 'e' wing and be armed with 4 x .303 rather then the 2 x .50?



Implying the universal wing...?

The answer to this is NO.  The E wing internal structure did not have the set up for the 303s outboard.  It was also not set up for 4 20mms.

The Universal Wing, that was called the C wing on the Spitfire V COULD have 4 303s in each wing, 2 303s and a 20mm or 2 20mms,  totally Universal.

See the Flypast thread I referenced for more on this.

Dan/Slack

[Wotan]

Thanks Dan,

I just finished that htread and was on the back to ask about that image...


That confirms what I had thought all along (and seems to confirms what Karnak said).

So the Spitfire F.IX would be correct for a IX with a merlin 61, 63, 63a.

[Karnak]

Wotan,

What I meant by "To the best of my knowledge, no Merlin 61 Spitfire was armed with .50 cals." was that there may have been a Merlin 63 or Merlin 63A Spitfire F.Mk IX that was armed with .50 cals.  I have not seen anything to that effect, but I believe Nashwan claimed that there were some.  I was stating, eplicitly, that I do not think that the Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX in AH should have the .50 cals as an option.  I think the .50 cals and rockets should be removed as options and it should be renamed "Spitfire F.Mk IX"

To me that never really made sense though, because by the time the "e" wing was introduced they were a year into production of Merlin 66 and Merlin 70 Spitfire IXs.  Heck, the first Mk XIV's had Universal Wings.  I just don't see Merlin 63 production lasting that long, but I coukd be wrong.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Karnak
Wotan,

What I meant by "To the best of my knowledge, no Merlin 61 Spitfire was armed with .50 cals." was that there may have been a Merlin 63 or Merlin 63A Spitfire F.Mk IX that was armed with .50 cals.  I have not seen anything to that effect, but I believe Nashwan claimed that there were some.  I was stating, eplicitly, that I do not think that the Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX in AH should have the .50 cals as an option.  I think the .50 cals and rockets should be removed as options and it should be renamed "Spitfire F.Mk IX"

To me that never really made sense though, because by the time the "e" wing was introduced they were a year into production of Merlin 66 and Merlin 70 Spitfire IXs.  Heck, the first Mk XIV's had Universal Wings.  I just don't see Merlin 63 production lasting that long, but I coukd be wrong.

Agreed on the AH Spit.  It shouldn't have the option for 50 cals or rockets as it's not an LF and definately not a variant that should have had an E wing with the hardpoints.  Those were Post D-Day LFIXes and XVIes.

The AH bird is really just an mixed up FIX or FIXe although there were no FIXes.  It's a late 42 early 43 bird.

And yes I wish we had the LFIX

Dan/Slack

[Wotan]

After looking through the speed climb differences I don't see what the big deal would be in having a LF.IX.

It would certainly be a better performer then the current F.IX under 25k but the differences don't seem to me to be something that would be feared. It would render the F.IX a hangar queen but so what.

If I had magical powers I would put one in today. However I can't see much reason for a clipped wing variant. It isn't any faster speed wise and while it may increase roll especially at lower speeds the 2 attributes (at least imho) that make a good fighters are acceleration and climb. I don't imagine the clip wings would do any better then the full wing variants. In fact it might climb a bit worse. The clipped wings make the spit even uglier then it already is.

I would also like to see a Spit V with 12lbs max boost.

thats would give AH the

Ia
Spit V '41
Spit V '42
F.IX '43
LF.IX  late 43 / 44
VIV for the very late war.

Plus the Seafire...

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Wotan
After looking through the speed climb differences I don't see what the big deal would be in having a LF.IX.

It would certainly be a better performer then the current F.IX under 25k but the differences don't seem to me to be something that would be feared. It would render the F.IX a hangar queen but so what.

If I had magical powers I would put one in today. However I can't see much reason for a clipped wing variant. It isn't any faster speed wise and while it may increase roll especially at lower speeds the 2 attributes (at least imho) that make a good fighters are acceleration and climb. I don't imagine the clip wings would do any better then the full wing variants. In fact it might climb a bit worse. The clipped wings make the spit even uglier then it already is.

I would also like to see a Spit V with 12lbs max boost.

thats would give AH the

Ia
Spit V '41
Spit V '42
F.IX '43
LF.IX  late 43 / 44
VIV for the very late war.

Plus the Seafire...

I imagine it's the same as for the 109 or 190 guys.   When they start talking about variants of the G for example, it loses me because I'm not as knowedgable about 109s.  Each of the 109 guys probably has a variant they would prefer that fits their interest.

For someone who likes Spits and their history, having something to fit a certain time frame helps.

I'm a longtime fan of the XII, but I doubt we'll ever get that one.  So for me a clipped wing, tall tail IX or XVI fills that roll.  It should be faster down low where most of the AH fights seem to take place.  The clipped wings did help the roll rate considerably and because it was used down lower, the turn rate and climb were not greatly affected.

And if you are going to have a Spit IX lugging rockets and bombs it would be the LFIXe and more often then not a clipped wing version.  All the XVIs were LF and they came off the production lines with clipped wings.

But that's just me

Dan/Slack

[Kev367th]

Thats one of the reasons I asked for a Spit 5 with the 4x20mm option (fairly common mid\late war). But that would scare the pants off the LW crowd .

Prob with current Spit 9 is that is a not a true spit 9, but a mish mash of spit 9 variants.