The importance of Strategic strikes and Teamwork

[214CaveJ]

Some things I've seen in the arena have really irked me, and I've felt the need to rant many a time, but dinnae just want to rant for the sake of it.  So here's a "constructive lesson" in the place of said rant =)

Many times I've seen the Rooks on a run taking bases.  Let's say the Rooks are in the west, the bishcuits in the south, and the nits in the north.  Rooks will take 5 and then 2.  This is where the strategy (and frustration) come in.  Half the people who fought take field 2 will head for field 3.  The other half head for field 1.  Thinking on ease of base capture, I suppose field 3 is a lot easier, being at 0ft elevation it's easy to stay off dar the whole trip to field 3.  But which is more important strategically?  Field 1.
Why?
  1) It's an elevated field (5000ft)
  2) all strategic targets are within 5-7 minutes flight time in a B-17 (slowest buff)

The most strategicly valuable field is the highest field in the land (1,9,17-5000ft elevation, also close proximity to all strategic targets)
The next two most strategicly valuable fields are the 2 fields in each land with an elevation of 3500ft (2,4,10,12,18,20-3500ft elevation, 10-12min flighttime to all strat targets in a B-17)
All of these fields also let you start with an altitude advantage (3500ft or 5000ft), which is that much quicker you get to altitude (5000ft start cuts 5min off your climb time in a B-17 w/ max bombload and up to 50% fuel)
It's also easier to defend the high ground.
But that's just the begining of where strategy factors into Aces High.

Now we come to the strategic targets.  They City (mother of the strategic targets), the HeadQuarters building, and all of the factories.  
Damage to the city affects the rebuild time of HQ and factories (city buildings rebuild 1hr after destroyed, city acks rebuild 30min after destroyed (kinda funny seeing the ack w/ no building under it =))
HQ takes out ALL dar (friendly and enemy sector markers and pinpoint dots)
Fuel refinery affects rebuild time of fuel tanks at fields.
Ammo factory affects rebuild time of ammo bunkers at fields.
Radar factory (surrounding HQ) affects rebuild time of towers at fields.
Grunt training facilities affects rebuild of barracks at fields.
Flack factory affects rebuild of acks at fields/city.
I'm not sure on how long it takes for factory buildings to rebuild w/ no damage to the city.  I've always operated on 30min, as I believe HT said that in the arena many versions ago, but lately on the board I've seen some people saying 1hr (how about the exact time HTC please? =)

Well that's all well and interesting, but what does all that information mean?
It means the strat model in the game will allow you to emasculate a country.  And this is where the teamwork comes in.

Using my example way up there ^, once field 2 is captured, 2 B-17's launch with 1000lb eggs and a couple of scorts and wipe out Bish HQ.  About 5 min after the HQ team takes off the strike teams launches.  The strike team comprises 2-3 bombers (17s or 26s, pilot's choice), 2 C47s (always a good idea to have a backup), and as many escort fighters as can be mustered.  The objective is to take field 1 (expect a hard fight, so launch in waves.  If you go down in a fighter, wait for a couple of other guys to launch with you).  This combination can be used to take any contested field (just make sure to launch in waves and coordinate).  That's the 'tactical' side of teamwork.

For the strategy side.  Start by killing the city.  On the first passes over the city kill the 6 acks.  This lets JABOs get in there and help with the destruction making it go ALOT quicker.  Have an HQ strike force launch as the last of the buildings are falling.  With the city 100% flat before the HQ building is destroyed, that countries dar will be down for 2.5hrs (unless HTC has changed the time modifiers, as I tested this back around .41-.42).  The city adds a multiplier of 4, plus the original rebuild time, to the factories and HQ (30min rebuild + (4 x 30min [city 100%destroyed]) = 2.5hrs of no dar).
Also have bombers/escorts launching to hit the fuel refineries and ammo factories (next on my personal list of importence).  The idea being to have the city 100% destroyed, then the HQ down and ammo factory/fuel refinery 100% destroyed before the city begins to rebuild.  Although I have no hard data (from tests or HTC), I believe the same modifier is applied from factories to the supplies at bases.  Destroy the ammo factory 100%, then destroy all ammo bunkers at a base, and that base will have ordinence disabled for 2.5hrs.  The same applies to the fuel refinery being down 100% and fuel tanks at the fields being down for 2.5hrs.
(I've done this task with a group of about 10 pilots all working together and maintaining clear communications to coordinate strikes.)  Please note, if you're a loner and a strike package is headed for the city while you're headed for the HQ thinking to knock it out, WAIT!  Let the strike package at the city finish off the city before dropping on the HQ.  If you kill the HQ before the city is hit, the HQ will be back in 30 min.  If the city is about 50% destroyed the HQ will be back in an hour and a half (then the city strike and HQ strike have to repeated sooner).  Plus you'll irritate the devil out of those who are working hard on a strategic plan to help their countrymen who just want to dogfight or capture bases.

I've seem some people say that the supplies at fields won't start rebuilding until the factories have started rebuilding.  Let's say this is the case, and the city and ammo factories are 100% destroyed.  Then the ammo bunkers at a field are destroyed with 2hrs left on the timer for the ammo factory to start rebuilding.  This would be 4.5hrs of no ordinence at that base (2hrs left at factory + 2.5hrs time for factory being 100% down when the ammo bunkers were destroyed).  Please note, this scenario is speculation as I have no hard data to support it, and hopefully HT and company will provide an answer to whether this is correct or not =)
This is how, using teamwork and coordinated strikes on the strategic targets/complexes, you can emasculate a country and take thier bases/cause a reset at will.

I'm sure there are many pilots thinking "I dinnae care about dropping bombs or taking bases, I just want to fly, fight, and get kills (or get killed), so how does this apply to me?"
That's easy to answer.  As more and more people come to realize the value of the strategic targets the defense of the targets will become more determined.  Escort the bombers and you'll have dogfights galore, and you'll be helping your countrymen while fulling your own personal agenda (fly, fight, kill =)

Ok, end of lecture with its hidden rant.  Hope this makes sense to some and it will help raise the bar a notch or two when it comes to flying historically/realistically (bomber formations w/ escorts etc etc, which have been the most fun missions I've been on).

Sorry if I bored you with the length, here's the podium back.

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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson

[-Catman-]

Organization is the key.  In fact I think I'm close to switching sides due to the lack of organization in the last 3-5 days.

I played on your side Cave, when I first started playing AH and I remember flying in a few of your large organized bomber strikes.. it was a blast!.  In fact flying with you and the others you normally fly with is probably what got me hooked and I've been missing that lately.

I need to fly for a team that's into organized strikes.  I'm tired of being the lone bomber in the sky over the enemy bases at 25K dropping on the next strategic target.

Maybe I need to join a squad, maybe that would give me what I'm looking for.  

Catman

[-Catman-]

Organization is the key.  In fact I think I'm close to switching sides due to the lack of organization in the last 3-5 days.

I played on your side Cave, when I first started playing AH and I remember flying in a few of your large organized bomber strikes.. it was a blast!.  In fact flying with you and the others you normally fly with is probably what got me hooked and I've been missing that lately.

I need to fly for a team that's into organized strikes.  I'm tired of being the lone bomber in the sky over the enemy bases at 25K dropping on the next strategic target.

Maybe I need to join a squad, maybe that would give me what I'm looking for.  

Catman

[Cobra]

Cave,
Great post!

If ya didn't fly for the rooks, I would fly bomber or escort with you anytime.  I really like the strat you laid out.  It makes alot of sense.

The TOD sorties that Sabre has been organizing are really showing me how the need for coordination and cooperation is paramount.

Again, your post was worth the reading.

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Member of the Flying Elvis's...AH's most elite parachute team...

[bloom25]

CavemanJ, your words are like music to another strat freaks ears.  

I thought I might add/ask something for you.  Sometimes when we go to take a major base, i.e. 17, 1, 9, we often launch a bluff strike at another (usually close) base with only 1 bomber, 1 c47, and maybe a fighter or two.  Very often 5+ fighters will rise to take on this strike force, 5 fighters that could be opposing the main strike.  Often times this low-key strike will capture the base and distract some attention from the main target.  It's important for the fake strike to launch first, however.

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[214CaveJ]

Once again come strategy ramblings from The CaVerN =)

Tonight we'll deal a little more with the tactical side of things, like stopping a "blitzkreig" into your homeland.

First things first, dinnae play defense.  "The best defense is a good offense."  When your home is getting hit, strike back.  I'm sure some of you are thinking to yourselves "we DO strike back, but we get overwhelmed by the numbers of the invaders and our contrymen dinnae come til it's too late."  Well you're thinking wrong.  2-3 pilots can stop a drive dead in it's tracks.

When you see an offensive gaining momentum launch in a bomber from 2 fields away, preferably from one of the elevated fields for the headstart it gives you on your climb.  The 26 will get you there faster, but you have less defensive firepower to defend yourself, your fields of fire are severely limited, and you carry a smaller payload.  The 17 is slower, but it has a larger payload, more defensive firepower, and much better fields of fire (nearly 100% coverage around the airframe).

Now that you're in buff, what are you going to do?  Kill the acks and try to sneak a gooney bird in there (if ya can find someone to drive it =)?  No.  Simply put, you are going to take away the enemy's ability to wage war.  Even a B26 with its load of 8 500lb bombs can take a fighter field out of the war for 30 minutes, which can be enough to reverse the offensive and put them on defense.  

Here's my prefered pattern for shutting down a fighter field, and I guess it takes about 10 minutes or a little under.
Approach from the north or south (dinnae matter, the pattern is the same either way).  On the first pass I drop the 2 ammo bunkers on the west side of the field.  After the bombs are out I make an easy right turn, about 90degrees, and extend enough to make another pass (the higher you are, the longer you have to extend).  Then I make a hard 180degree right turn so I'm headed back at the field.  This pass takes down both barracks buildings, one on each side of the runway, and another 90degree right turn.  Extend and turn right 180degrees to head back to the field.  This pass takes out both fuel tanks on either the west side or the east side of the runway (2 tanks on each side).  Extend into another 180degree turn to pork the last 2 fuel tanks on the field.

This field is now effectively out of the war for 30minutes, and it only took you 5-10 minutes to shut it down (assuming no enemy fighters got to you to stop/slow you down).

The big bomber fields are a little more difficult and are covered by back and forth east-west passes.  The first pass is always down the center of the field, popping the barracks and the single ammo bunker tucked in between the runway ends at the southwest corner.  The second pass comes along the northern edge of the field taking 1 fuel tank (it's a waste of an egg to try and get both on the same pass unless you use the salvo command (and ya gotta be QUICK!)), and the 2 ammo bunkers up there.  Bombers and gooney birds are now out of the game at this field.  The remainder of the passes are used to drop eggs on the fuel tanks.  This base is now practically shut down, and it only took 10-12 minutes.

These actions are by no means "war winning strategies", but are meant to break the back of an offensive that has gained momentum.  To keep these fields down return to the closest friendly field, replane where you started from, and launch again.  You may have to orbit a few times (time to gain more altitude) before the targets start coming up, but once they do you can run your pattern again.

And for the furballers who only want to fly, fight, and kill or be killed, fly escort for someone going to shut down a field.  I imagine it'll be a safe wager that you can find a fight as fighters try to intercept the bomber (especially if they read and understood what I'm saying here =).


Please note, I dinnae mention taking down the tower nor the acks.  That's because those are a waste of eggs as far as this particular mission is concerned.  Your objective is to remove the field from thier offensive aresenal, not to prep it for capture.  If you're in a B-17 you'll have 4 eggs left, so you can make one last pass over a fighter field and pop the acks and tower on that last pass.  The bomber fields will take all 12 500lb'ers to kill all the fuel, barracks, and ammo bunkers.

[This message has been edited by 214CaveJ (edited 02-02-2000).]

[Hristo]

Too many people think of just pulling on the stick, sadly.

When a rook base is attacked by multiple bishops, for example, I see rooks taking off and dying without idea what else can be done.

Few times I went over the base that bishops were using to attack our base. Just by circling over it in a 109 and hitting unwary ones, the bishop offensive stopped. Of course I could not hit all of them, but they were all trying to get me, instead of hitting our field. Enough time for rooks at our base to recover and counterstrike. What a hero I am  

Now seriously, the game lacks strategic and even tactical thinking. I know that furballs are most fun, but losing field after field due to no coordination hurts rooks the most, I believe.

On one occassion the Rookland was limited to f17 and f20 only. The knights were attacking bishop f19. The bishops were defending it heavy from f18. However, the rooks, instead of hitting any backfield of those two countries , actually attacked the f19 on their own !!! Now what chance does a rook c47 have in a knight/bishop furball ?!?!

No matter how hard few rooks tried to organize the sneaky attack, there was no response. Reset followed shortly.

Despite CaveJ and other strategical planners, I believe bishops are the most dangerous side.

An average rook comes online, and after usual "...hi rooks...", there is "...where is hot ?..." line and off we go to the vulched field  

When there is a big furball at f7 or f8, and rooks suddenly lose HQ near their f17, I do not have to look at the roster. I just know Azrael is online. When I want to grab alt and head to f4 from f18 and there is 25% fuel available, I know it is him again  

Now, how about country forums on this board ? Where interested players can actually meet and discuss strategy ? How about chat on planning actions ? Text buffer in AH is really no place for doing this.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-02-2000).]

[214CaveJ]

Hristo you've hit the nail right on the head my friend.  While this is posted where everyone can read and learn, I'm really hoping that the Rooks will really take in what I'm saying.  Anytime you see me and my Wrecking Crew in force you see bases falling and countries loosing things.  Earlier today, applying what I've mentioned, we striped the nits down to 3 fields, then took away dar and offensive capability (killed ammo factory then bombed all ammo bunkers at all of thier fields (bish hit the ones on f1)).  For about an hour the nits couldna even think of taking any bases back for lack of ordinence.  This allowed the Rooks to focus solely on the bishcuits (nit couldna bomb anything =)  Again, just a demonstration of what a small, but organized and determined group of pilots can do with this strategy model.
The nits came back with a vengence when they finally got thier ordinence back though =)

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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson

[Saintaw]

Soooo, CaveJ, it was you that attracted me above the ack of your own field yesterday, huh ?  

Good move !

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Saw/Saintaw/Saint
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK

DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
 http://www.wardogs.org/
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."

[Cobra]

Cave,
I was flying for the Knights last night, and you are correct.  Good fights we had btw  

The rooks had us backed way into a corner....so with the thought that the best defense is a good offense, we decided to go offensive in rookland.  It drew off some of the resources and took the heat of our homeland which allowed us to gain momentum.  

I understand that some of the rooks left the knight offensive to hit the bish's so that obviously helped us.

Now I know this is a little bit of a twist of your post regarding disabling the enemy's ability to wage an offensive campaign (which I agree with btw).  But it does show that different strategies can and do work, but they have to be coordinated.  

Again, the key words are strategy, planning, and coordination.

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Member of the Flying Elvis's...AH's most elite parachute team...

[RangerBob]

The real question is.. where do you find this strategic information posted as to damage effect times, which buildings do which etc etc. I never have seen any of it posted by Aces High anywhere. Why the secret??

RangrBob

[Logan12]

CC RangerBob, I looked all over BBS and nothing ?

[This message has been edited by Logan12 (edited 02-14-2000).]

[214CaveJ]

I dinnae think they've finished the pages about the strat part of the sim.  Everything I've posted here has been from personal experience in the main arena and from questions I've asked HiTech when he's been in Q&A mode in the arena.

But ask away, I'll be happy to answer strat questions as best I can.

[RangerBob]

Hitech should be able to get something out to us soon on Strategic now that the Beta phase is over and more pilots are starting to look at Strategic Strikes.

I have so many questions on Strategic that I'm not sure where to begin.

I guess the most important info is how many bombs of what size does it take to drop a building?

Does it take the same number of bombs to drop any type of building or do some buildings require more?

How long do building stay down after bombed?

If you drop a bomb at the beginning of a runnway just past the spawn area would a plane moving off the spawn area into this crater be damaged? I know that if he gets away from the crater he can take off via the grass if needed.

Do you know which buildings are important in the HQ radar area and the cities?

I guess I have asked enough for now, but I really appreciate any information you can give. The more we get people interested in Strategic Targets the better these air battles will become. It gets kinda boring taking the same old bases.

With the first flat rate flight sim that has realistic flight models I would expect to see some real bomber pilots in here. Bombing in Warbirds is too expensive. Bombing in Airwarrior is highly unrealistic and the planes often lack gunners.

Thanks
Ranger Bob

[214CaveJ]

RangerBob-  I'm pretty sure you can find the answers to several of your questions in my "books" above, but here goes  

 

Does it take the same number of bombs to drop any type of building or do some buildings require more?

a 500lb egg will take down any building except the HQ building.  Though there have been times that I've dropped them and they "sideswiped" the target, not taking it out.  So be accurate =)

 

How long do building stay down after bombed?

City buildings stay down an hour, everything else stays down 30 minutes.  I've seen a couple of people on the board say an hour for factory buildings, but I can niether confirm nor deny this.  I'm saying 30min based on what HT has said in the arena way back when

 

If you drop a bomb at the beginning of a runnway just past the spawn area would a plane moving off the spawn area into this crater be damaged? I know that if he gets away from the crater he can take off via the grass if needed

if he's there when the bomb hits he'll be damaged/killed.  Otherwise he can drive right through the crater.  The only exception is the craters where the tower was taken down.  Even though the tower is down, there is a 'ghost' tower there that will kill your arse.

 

Do you know which buildings are important in the HQ radar area and the cities?

It's been my experience that all buildings in a particular complex are all worth the same percentage.  The exception being the HQ building in the center of the radar factory complex.

Hope this helps some


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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson