Author Topic: flying butresses on the white house. (Read 1273 times)

J_A_B · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:31:51 PM »

"Who would that be?"

Jefferson wasn't openly Christian, at least not in the same sense Bush is.

Lincoln wasn't known for being religious.

I think Andrew Johnson also didn't really practice.

Since the advent of the TV age, politicans find that being religious--or pretending to be--seems to gather more votes. I firmly believe that many modern day politicans are religious only in appearance.

GWB, like him or hate him, at least seems to genuinely believe in his faith.

J_A_B

HugeHead · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:34:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?

His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.

Isn't the crux of this what he means by "Lord"? Does he mean God or Jesus? It's not interchangeble to non-christians and causes them concern...justfiable concern I would say.

hh

Octavius · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:37:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rude
..in other words, his faith helps him in the office.

... in other other words, rationality escapes him and he depends on a delusion of ignorance to "lead."

JB88, whats the date on that quote? I think he can stop pretending. He's got his 2nd term; no further pandering is necessary.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:37:41 PM »

Thanks J_A_B

I agree with you on them trying to appear that way.

Glas · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:39:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?

His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.

I didnt interpret him as saying 'this job sucks eggs, you need religion just to get you through the day'.

Whether it was meant the way it came out is another matter.

Sandman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:44:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rude

His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.

I think you're close, but what he should have said was, "I could not be president without my faith."

I can give him the benefit of a doubt. Grammar isn't exactly his strength.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2005, 04:50:50 PM »

"I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord."

The meaning is obvious, he is talking about himself and his view of what is important to his values.

But no, its much more fun to see it in an evil conspiracy way.... The reason jb posted this is due to his unheathy hatred of W, christianity and increasingly americas values and traditions.

lada · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:18:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?

His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.

Then he must love contemporary iranian goverment and political arangement...

AHA !!!! I GOT IT .... he Is not that stupid... he is only jealous because of all those pseudo islamic goverments are so successfuly in abusing ... ehmm.. sorry useing i mean .. god name

however do not be sad, we had religion watermelon in high politic here as well..... few hundret years ago

btw is Darwin common subject at elementary schools or secondary high schools in US ?
Is it still mandatory to say that "prayer" like speach every morning at school ? (edit: at what kind of schools was/is this habbit? )

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:24:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lada
Then he must love contemporary iranian goverment and political arangement...

AHA !!!! I GOT IT .... he Is not that stupid... he is only jealous because of all those pseudo islamic goverments are so successfuly in abusing ... ehmm.. sorry useing i mean .. god name

however do not be sad, we had religion watermelon in high politic here as well..... few hundret years ago

btw is Darwin common subject at elementary schools or secondary high schools in US ?
Is it still mandatory to say that "prayer" like speach every morning at school ?

Look lada I understand that europe is extremly secular even to the point where hates religion.

Yet, If you were only half as tolerant and multicultular and accepting as you boasted in some recent poasts about europe's diversity then there are a heck of a lot better ways to express it than comparing the US goverment and a us presidents personal faith to iran's theocratic dictatorship.

But you arent capable of that, so plese stuff it.

lada · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:41:08 PM »

actualy i had classmates at high school from Bosna and Ukrajina .... but you are quite right, we do not accept foreigners... only emreeka do it... viva viva viva ... [ how many europian countries refused to accept you during the war or after ? ]

Yeep in name of god did die more people that in name of Communism or Facism.

So basicaly religion connected to goverment is not option for people who can read and write IMO.

I dont know how old are you, but i think, that you are old enough to remember into what has been turned conflict in former Yugoslavia.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2005, 05:45:47 PM »

Heh.

Just saying that the USA culture places a different value on religion, many here see it as valuable personal asset to overtcoming thrubles in life, a great source of hope and a positive way to bring a community together. If you look most of the great civil rights and anti slavery movements came from US churces, they were centers of the community and great places to make positive political change.

So I think its a big difference here in the sates and I think it's inappropriite, inaccurate and unfair that you compare the personal faith of a US president to the dictatorial religios rule of Iran. They are entirely different.

JB88 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:03:55 PM »

um. not so much.

i think its a pretty fair, albiet extreme analogy.

and it certanly true that organized religion has been responsible for wholesale slaughter and repression. more so i would argue than any "church based" civil rights movements.

"the inquisition....what a show...."

i keep asking myself if jesus would have mounted saddams pistol or if he would have gone hunting with it.

HugeHead · « **Reply #27 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:30:14 PM »

Still the real issue here is what he meant by the term "Lord". The term has very different meanings depending on wether you are Christian or not. As a Christian the implied meaning is Jesus. That statement would be cause for concern to non-Christians. Understandably. We can toss this back and forth and interpret all we want but, is it not incumbent on a man in the Presidents position to be absolutely clear on something such as this? It's not a subject to be cavalier about.

hh

JB88 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:41:13 PM »

here here.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #29 on:** January 13, 2005, 06:48:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by HugeHead
Still the real issue here is what he meant by the term "Lord". The term has very different meanings depending on wether you are Christian or not. As a Christian the implied meaning is Jesus. That statement would be cause for concern to non-Christians. Understandably. We can toss this back and forth and interpret all we want but, is it not incumbent on a man in the Presidents position to be absolutely clear on something such as this? It's not a subject to be cavalier about.

hh

He is perfectly clear, he means in his personal view, reflecting on his personal needs and values as he currently carries out the responsibilities of this high office.