Author Topic: So we never join WW2  (Read 1604 times)

Offline GreenCloud

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1365
So we never join WW2
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2005, 02:33:10 PM »
kikazzzchairboy..nice job..

feel free to write more..it was an excellent read

I was going to say..did you write that yourself..or was that a "cut-n-paste"..but i guess you did it..wow..


thanks again chairboy..

and furball. really beleive england woudl of been doen..--I hav eread many u-boat accounts...The world is dammm lucky hilter did not listen Doerntz...MORE U BOATS!!!


..even if UK coudl get raw materials from other nations..getting them to the island was the problem

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
So we never join WW2
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2005, 02:45:12 PM »
First of all, there would have been no "truce" with Russia.  It seems everyone has forgotten, Hitler's entire justification for taking Europe under his control was that he didnt have the resources to fight Russia.  He may have used other excuses to the world in the beginning, but taking out Stalin's Russia was his priority.  He saw Communism as the ultimate threat and was determined to stomp it out.  Britain was certainly a roadblock, but Hitler never much wanted a war with them anyway.  What he wanted was

1)  All of mainland Europe under German control, and access to all the resources.

2)  Either a treaty or some other form of controlling England to keep them from being an aggressor and/or launching pad for aggressors, requiring him to fight on 2 fronts.  He was more than willing to use force, but didnt want to if he could get away with it.  Luckily for Britain, Hitler decided to stop expending resources trying to conquer them, when it wasnt necessary.  He switched his focus to his real objective, Communist Russia, and left the Western Front as a holding action to keep the British off the mainland.  He decided he could afford the resources after all, and Britain wasnt much of a threat away from their own shores.

Russia would have done just fine without us or our Lend/Lease.  Eventually.  They would have done much better in the beginning if Stalin werent such a paranoid delusional.  He saw conspiracies in every shadow and whisper.  Most of his experienced military were executed because he saw them as a threat.  So while Germany had experienced pilots and troops, the advantage of the technological advances that came from using the equipment in battle and making it better, etc., Russia had outdated equipment and poorly trained, inexperienced people.  The only thing that really saved them was Mother Nature.  The Russian winter gave them the time they needed to set up manufacturing centers far back from the front lines and begin mass producing tanks and planes and guns to fight the Germans.  It also gave them time to collect their army, train them into some semblance of usefulness and begin pushing back.  It certainly helped when the US began putting pressure on a Western Front that Hitler hadn't planned on assigning any real resources to.  But given the relative size and population of Russia vs German occupied Europe, I'm not sure it would have mattered.  It would have been longer, and very ugly, but I'm pretty positive Russia would have eventually kicked the snot out of them.

Offline Glas

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 197
So we never join WW2
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2005, 02:55:47 PM »
Exactly SOA.

Also, another reason why there could never be a truce between the USSR and Germany;

The Nazis despised the Soviets.  They hated them with as much passion as they hated the Jews.  The Soviets, citizens and military alike, were nothing but scum on the bottom of SS boots.

The USSR was happy to play along with the truce signed in the build-up to WWII, but after the actions of the Germans in advancing towards the Soviet Union, the Soviets would never accept anything less than annihilation and annexation.

WWII would possibly have continued right until the Russians advanced to Berlin, or perhaps even the French coast.  But there would have been only 1 victor.

Offline Furball

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15781
So we never join WW2
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2005, 05:19:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Glas

WWII would possibly have continued right until the Russians advanced to Berlin, or perhaps even the French coast.  But there would have been only 1 victor.


Unless the Germans got the nuke, then the ruskies would have been royally screwed.

Apparently the krauts were a year or so from developing the bomb by VE day... and that is after the Norwegian + SOE raids on their heavy water plants delayed the making of the bomb.
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
-Cicero

-- The Blue Knights --

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
So we never join WW2
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2005, 05:26:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
It's untrue. There were no offensive plans in USSR in 1941.

LOL

Offline Glas

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 197
So we never join WW2
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2005, 06:34:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
LOL


Why is that funny?  The Soviets had just massacred the top brass in their armed forces, and believed in the truce with Germany.  Why would they have been caught with their pants down otherwise?  If the Soviets were planning offensives, it would have been on their Western flank, and the Nazis would never have got further than they did.

I guess because Boroda said it, then it just has to be propaganda, eh? :rolleyes:

I realised a long time ago who were the brainwashed people in here.  I didnt realise tho quite how brainwashed they were.

Offline doobs

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1605
So we never join WW2
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2005, 07:31:57 PM »
Why is  anybody trying to disect Chairboy's story.
It was just a story, he made it up in a right before that darn dinner bell, and now he'll probably won't write anymore.
Poor guys new Career hasn't even started before it ended .
R.I.P JG44
(founding XO)

68KO always remembered

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
So we never join WW2
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2005, 09:08:01 PM »
No, you are definately wrong about that.  The US damn near supplied all of the soviet union for that time.  Had it not happened, Russia would not have been able to win a war of attrition.



But the NO us involvement was based around Pearl Harbor not being attacked.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
So we never join WW2
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2005, 10:24:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by doobs
Why is  anybody trying to disect Chairboy's story.
It was just a story, he made it up in a right before that darn dinner bell, and now he'll probably won't write anymore.
Poor guys new Career hasn't even started before it ended .

Heh, don't worry about it.  Yeah, I just busted it out in a few minutes, and if I can't take some crit, I wouldn't be much of a writer!

Actually, I'm not sure...  maybe I SHOULD try to do something with it.  Fix the errors (hey, I ain't no historian, and it shows) and see if I can figure out how to write something interesting.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline ramzey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3223
So we never join WW2
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2005, 10:39:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
It's untrue. There were no offensive plans in USSR in 1941.


lol, how about 1942-43? ;)

Offline spitfiremkv

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1135
So we never join WW2
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2005, 11:25:07 PM »
Great read Chairboy!


I suggest ya'all read Philip K. Dick's "The Man in the High Castle". In it, the Axis actually wins the war. It's a pretty deep book, I didn't get it the first time I read it and didn't really enjoy it tha much, but the second time (after some years), it all clicked and I was awed.

Offline patrone

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 608
So we never join WW2
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2005, 11:46:49 PM »
Really neat story, thanks, Chairboy

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
So we never join WW2
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2005, 12:47:55 AM »
I didnt have a problem with the story, it was very imaginative and well written.  Definitely its an interesting pastime, to play the "what if" game and see what develops.  I just think if you are going to play it, you need to keep true to the facts.  

There are a million things that could have happened to prevent Pearl Harbor.  Or make it have less impact than it did.  To erase Hitler's obsession with Communism would require altering the man himself.  Same with Stalin.  Hell, remove Stalin and provide a weak and ineffective govt. for Russia, Hitler might never have tried building a super army and starting WWII.  Unlikely, but arguable.

Offline Spooky

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 254
So we never join WW2
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2005, 07:18:53 AM »
Perk the Messerschmitt Me-626 !!!

btw,I'd love to see a "realistic" what-if scenario  in a sim, like SWOTL with today's graphics and power !

Offline loser

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1642
So we never join WW2
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2005, 08:13:45 AM »
The Royal Canadian Marines?