Author Topic: feathering a prop  (Read 2294 times)

Offline Flyboy

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feathering a prop
« on: January 21, 2005, 02:45:13 PM »
in AH the only way to control prop pitch is throu changing the RPM.
was it like that in real life? or was there a way to change the prop pitch directly?

it seems kinda wierd because in AH you have no idea if your prop is feathered.

i am not sure i fully understand how PP and RPM are related
is there a way to change RPM without changing the PP?

Offline Krusty

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feathering a prop
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2005, 03:11:49 PM »
I think in AH you can NOT feather a prop. I think this because even when I'm trimmed out with a dead eng, it wants to rotate me when I dive fast enough. I think it's the blades pressing against the airstream.


100% speculation

Offline Angus

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feathering a prop
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2005, 03:19:31 PM »
You can feather props on aircraft that historically had the option.
Take a B24 and try the + and - keys,

emm, at least I think so
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline GScholz

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feathering a prop
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2005, 03:22:01 PM »
On some planes the props stop spinning when you turn off the engine. I guess they are feathered.
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Offline hitech

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feathering a prop
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2005, 03:34:25 PM »
If planes props could be freathered AH will auto feather them when the engines stops.

So if prop is still turning after engine stops, it couldn't be feathered.


HiTech

Offline Golfer

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feathering a prop
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2005, 04:05:29 PM »
A full feathering propeller is typically found only on multiengine airplanes and turboprop singles.

Simply changing the RPM of the propeller is not feathering it.

What "feathering" means is to have the propeller blades turn parallel with the relative wind so they are no longer spinning, thus creating the least amount of drag possible.

Here is a P-3 Orion with its outside propeller feathered, which means it is no longer spinning.


Now, a propeller in which you can change the RPM is often referred to as a "Constant Speed" propeller because the blade angles are constantly changing to maintain a certain RPM.  The blades are powered by oil pressure, which is regulated by a governer mounted on the engine.

If in a multiengine airplane you lose an engine, then the lack of oil pressure will drive the propeller toward feather, or low RPM.  This is done by a spring in the propeller hub and often a Nitrogen charge.  Feathering the engine merely requires pulling the propeller control all the way aft which will pull two pins (kept in place by centrifugal force) and allow the propeller to go all the way to feather.

On a Piston Single, for example the opposite happens.  The blade set to be at maximum RPM.  Oil pressure from the governer is pumped into the hub and causes the propeller to become lower in pitch and thus lower the RPM.

Now, all this talk of propeller pitch...

Think of it just like the pitch control "elevator" on the airplane.  Since the propeller is just a wing (airfoil) this is a pretty good analogy...

At Low pitch (feather) think of the propeller flying in straight and level flight.  This provides the least resistance and allows the easiest passage of air over the blades.

At High pitch (max rpm) the propeller is taking a smaller bite of air, so you can think that the propeller 'wing' is climbing.  Just like when flying, you pitch up (toward a higher pitch...get it?) and the airplane climbs.

Offline hitech

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feathering a prop
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2005, 04:15:47 PM »
Quote
On a Piston Single, for example the opposite happens. The blade set to be at maximum RPM. Oil pressure from the governer is pumped into the hub and causes the propeller to become lower in pitch and thus lower the RPM.


Belive you ment Higher pitch / lower RPM.

Offline HoHun

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Re: feathering a prop
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 04:39:29 PM »
Hi Flyboy,

>in AH the only way to control prop pitch is throu changing the RPM.

>was it like that in real life? or was there a way to change the prop pitch directly?

It depended on the aircraft. In an attempt to free the pilot's attention from engine management tasks and for actual combat activities, more and more of the routine tasks were automated in later aircraft.

Most WW2 aircraft had constant speed propellers, which would maintain - obviously - a constant engine speed :-) However, others had direct pitch control, and the automatic control systems usually had way of controlling pitch instead of speed, too.

>i am not sure i fully understand how PP and RPM are related
is there a way to change RPM without changing the PP?

Yes, by changing airspeed or by changing engine boost.

As in combat, airspeed and engine boost changed as result of combat manoeuvres while the pilot wanted the engine to rev at its best speed anyway, that highlights why constant speed propellers were such a good idea :-)

Some aircraft, like Focke Wulf Fw 190, but also late-war Spitfires and early-war Dewoitines, took it one step further and combined boost and speed control in one single lever. The pilot would just push forward the now re-named "power" lever to the desired power setting, and an analogue (mechanical/hydraulical/pneumatical) computer would do the rest.

In the Spitfire, this worked optimally only for combat power settings, but in the Focke-Wulf it covered the entire power range. Only in dives, the Fw 190 pilot had to pull a second lever to prevent overspeeding, everything else was fully automatic.

(In the D.520, apparently such a control was missing, and the system seemed not to have worked very well if we believe the British test pilot Eric Brown. That's the trouble with new technology :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline jigsaw

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feathering a prop
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2005, 05:09:58 PM »
Then there's the whole "reverse pitch"...sorry, couldn't resist.:D

VWE

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feathering a prop
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2005, 05:48:30 PM »
Thats called "Beta"... learn the lingo bucko!

Offline jigsaw

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feathering a prop
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2005, 05:54:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VWE
Thats called "Beta"... learn the lingo bucko!


Aye Aye Sir, but thought if I used the "correct" term the funny factor might be lost on those not familiar with it.:)

Related story: During LOFT in a Frasca 242T  I was on short final, the instructor joked something about the runway looking awful short. I replied "That's what beta is for."

Offline Golfer

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feathering a prop
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2005, 06:15:39 PM »
Oh yeah...this one time I landed an airplane and I pulled the prop lever back and it went into beta...and we stopped.  SO THERE!

Offline jigsaw

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feathering a prop
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2005, 07:50:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Oh yeah...this one time I landed an airplane and I pulled the prop lever back and it went into beta...and we stopped.  SO THERE!


Hi5 Golfer :)

Offline bunch

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feathering a prop
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2005, 06:22:07 AM »
Somewhat related question:
how did the dual pitch props (like Battle of Britain era Spitfires & Hurricanes) operate?  It couldn't have been on oil pressure, could it?

Offline Flyboy

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feathering a prop
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2005, 07:47:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
If planes props could be freathered AH will auto feather them when the engines stops.

So if prop is still turning after engine stops, it couldn't be feathered.


HiTech


hitech, the props will only auto feather if the engine is dammaged.
if i manually turn off the engine, or run out of fuel, there isnt an option to feather the prop.

this probably belongs to the game request now, but it would be great to have more control on the PP and be able to feather it manualy inflight.


one more thing i found out, even after i turn the engine off, the RPM stay the same, even in very low speed, graphicly, you can see the prop turning slowly but the there is no movement in the RPM gauge, if i will take the plane to a even lower speed (below 40mph) the prop will stop turning and the rpm will show zero, meaning the prop is feathered i guess. after the prop stop turning no matter what speed ill go it wont move unlesss i turn on the engine.

and lastly when the engine is off and the prop is still turning, when i start the engine it imidiatly goes to full power (or whatever power im on), but if the prop is feathered it will have to do the whole start up routine and it will take a few seconds.

that doesnt look right for me, althogh i have no idea :)