Author Topic: Was there an FM change with v2.02??  (Read 2401 times)

Offline Kweassa

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« on: January 29, 2005, 06:06:15 PM »
The extremely sensitive "wobbliness" of 109s - it's gone..!

 
 The super-sensitive wobbling in the roll axis when 109s approach near stall AoA.. its just disappeared. Its still much more sensitive than AH1, but still, the 109s are much more pleasant to fly with. I can do full rudder maneuvers again more easily, too.

 I don't know if its just placebo, but storch in the CT forums stated that he feels it too.

 Anybody else notice this? I haven't flown the C.205 or C.202 in v2.02, but these planes also had the 'sensitive wobble' - maybe its gone for them too??

 
 Was there a small FM change we weren't notified of?? :confused:

Offline Fruda

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2005, 06:08:44 PM »
I noticed this, too. Seems there might have been a slight FM change in the 109's.

Offline Jester

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2005, 12:45:37 AM »
The ME-109G-2's FM' has gone South (to put it polietly) as well.

I got into a fight with a P-40E and was all I could do to HANG IN THE SKY, even the slightest turn would cause a stall - both high and low speeds!

It used to be a nimble fighter - now it drives like a TUGBOAT! Hell the A-20 and the B-26 have better flight charactaristics than the 109G-2 has now.

HTC, you really need to look at this one close. Someone crossed it's FM with the B-24.  :rolleyes:

P.S. The Luwtwaffe cannon shells still aren't worth a CRAP.
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Offline Tails

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2005, 12:45:54 AM »
Also, the 110's seem to have gotten ever so SLIGHTLY less likely to snap-roll into a spin on you. They still do it, but I can seem to hold hard maneuvers a little longer before I get worried.
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Offline Kweassa

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2005, 04:30:34 AM »
Jester, when was the last time you flew the 109s? I find your comments strange, because I felt exactly the opposite when I tried out the 109s in v2.02. :confused:

 I'm a 109-freak and have been flying 109s for eight years, in all of the flight sim games I've played. I've never really liked any other plane in AH.

 I've also written many detailed posts and threads discussing the wierd wobbly roll-destabilization 109s met in AH2 when its AoA reached near the limit.

 I've always complained about how P-51s, F4Us.. and even P-47(!)s outturn 109s with ease, because the 109s were so incredibly unstable that they couldn't follow any of those flap wielding planes when the speed hit under 200mph. Also, whenever heavy rudders were used the roll axis was again destabilized, meaning that you couldn't force any overshoots in tight maneuvers.


 I'm not trying to discredit or challenge you on this, but I just find it strange. :)  This very issue interested me greatly, and I 've been pretty keenly monitoring how the 109s were doing. My conclusion is that v2.02 109s have improved a lot when compared to v2.01 or AH2 beta 109s...

Offline MANDO

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2005, 09:48:27 AM »
Readme does not include any FM change. Are they changing FMs without notification?

Offline wrag

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2005, 02:32:46 PM »
Hmmmm.....

I've noticed the 109's seemed to behave better laletly as well.

Prior to this release they wallowed more at slower speeds an sometimes seemed to wallow at high speed as well.

Haven't tried the manuvers the 109's were known for yet as I'm still getting used to what I see that seems to be a FM adjustment done by HTC.

P38L's seem to handle better as well.

Noticed the first day in mindinao the 109 I was flying could do nearly 500 mph at 5k in a dive and was just starting to compress.  Thinkin HT has some settings they can fiddle with in the arena though.  Cause after an HT reset  of the arena the compression speed seemed to go back the 450 425 area.

Just an IMHO thing here.
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Offline Halo

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2005, 03:29:07 PM »
I've only flown the Yak-9U briefly but seems to be much more torque requiring much more rudder input.
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storch

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Re: Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2005, 09:25:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
The extremely sensitive "wobbliness" of 109s - it's gone..!

 
 The super-sensitive wobbling in the roll axis when 109s approach near stall AoA.. its just disappeared. Its still much more sensitive than AH1, but still, the 109s are much more pleasant to fly with. I can do full rudder maneuvers again more easily, too.

 I don't know if its just placebo, but storch in the CT forums stated that he feels it too.

 Anybody else notice this? I haven't flown the C.205 or C.202 in v2.02, but these planes also had the 'sensitive wobble' - maybe its gone for them too??

 
 Was there a small FM change we weren't notified of?? :confused:


The FM for the LW is about what it was prior to patch 5 IMHO.  It is still not what it needs to be but at least you can play on a slightly tilted playing field as opposed to a 60 degree grade in favor of the allieds as it had been since patch 5.  The cannons are still way off.  the MG151 should be about equal to the HS404.  My feeling is that there is still an allied modelling advantage.

What I did notice is that the 110 is much too uber.  It is doing things a 110 never should in the vertical and horizontal.

You would think it was an allied plane or something.  :D

Offline Jester

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2005, 09:38:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Jester, when was the last time you flew the 109s?


Well Kweassa..., I put in 3 years in WARBIRDS flying with JG 51 MOLDERS and going on 4 years now with ACES HIGH in both JG 3 UDET & JG 54 GRUNHERZ. Even a short stint with CFS and IL-2 (JG 51 again). In the years since I started flying flight sims I would have to say I have put in WELL over 80% of that time in Luftwaffe aircraft and of that at least 75% of that was in various models of the ME-109.

I have also flown in four other Allied squads in combat AGAINST the 109 (Flying Hellcats, Seafires, Juggs, Mustangs, Warhawks & Marauders) so I know what it will do against certain Allied aircraft.

I think that pretty well qualifies me to at least say that "something" is different in the FM's of the aircraft, either positive or negative, from the last version.

Take up a 109F and the G-2 while there should be some differences due to extra weight on the G-2 it shouldn't be to the extent that there is now in FM's. It is like night and day.

And I have been carping about the undermodeling of LW cannon rounds in AH since before Storch climbed into his first trainer aircraft!  ( :aok ) One point that REALLY needs addressed.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2005, 09:50:03 PM by Jester »
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Offline Flyboy

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2005, 10:15:19 PM »
ttok the G2 for a ride after reading this post, and i must say i didnt noticed anything different.

still a great plane

Offline Oldman731

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2005, 06:59:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester
I got into a fight with a P-40E and was all I could do to HANG IN THE SKY, even the slightest turn would cause a stall - both high and low speeds!

Heh heh.

Heh heh heh.

- oldman

storch

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2005, 07:34:13 AM »
In response to Jester.

No doubt you have more experience than I, however I spend alot of my generous amount of discreationary time playing.  As you are aware the lion's share is in axis.  minor changes are immediately noticable to me.  Prior to v 2.02 I started flying with the 56th FG in the MA and am learning the ways of the Jug.  The thing the struck me the most are the 400 mph flaps and the laser .50s.  

If you fly the 109G2 without the gondies it is handling as it was prior to patch 5.  With the gondies it is handling worse than during patch 6.  I usually don't fly the gondies because I would rather have the speed and I find the single pop gun enough against fighters.  If I want to go buff hunting then the 190 A8 or the Bf 110 G2 are the tools for the job.  The Jug is great at buff killing also.

I would like to inquire of Pyro if he has had the chance to evaluate the data that Crumpp provided some time ago regarding the performances of the various 190s and their respective engines?

It is critical to the game (more so in the CT) that the modelling be faithful to all types.  I've noticed many skilled axis players have left the game.  That is a shame, perhaps by correcting these flaws many would return.

The CT is coming to life again.  we have had some great fights and playable numbers due in no small part to the return of LW A/C to pre patch 5 performance levels.

It was recommended to me that I go and revisit Warbirds.  It is reported that the CT equivalent there is seeing between 50 to 200 players and that the balance between the models is very close.  I haven't verified this for myself presently but will do so in the coming week.

In a post by HT some months back he responded to a question of this nature by stating that the average length of player stay for an on-line game is 18 months  (this is coming from a guy who has played since before people squatted to crap!).  While this may be true of other types of games it seems to me that most of the players I know have been playing this type of game for years and years.  So much so that at two years playing I think of myself as a noob.  Also many of the players in this type of game are very interested in the history of WWII aircraft and are quite versed in the facts.  Speaking for myself I will be playing MMOG WWII flight games as long as I am able to.  I'm sure many others will as well.  These are the players that should be catered to, this is the core of the business.  You cannot favor either side of the simulated conflict.  The aircraft should be modelled as faithfully as technology permits and the chips must land where the may.

1. Eliminate the silly flap auto retraction.  Especially in the excellent Bf109 flap actuation system.

2. Model the aircraft to the mfgs specs.  they weren't propagandizing.  If you would analyze the data Crumpp generously provided for the 190 you would see how far off the 190 actually is.  This data BTW is from  the USAAC tests!  Implement it before some else does.

3. Get the ballisitics right.

FWIW, these are pretty simply solutions.  you will have a much better game in the long run. Try it you'll be glad you did.  :D

Offline DoctorYO

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Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2005, 10:57:58 AM »
In response to a change in 109's handling

I too notice something in the stall speed handling of 109's  they dont feel as moosh as they used too with the constant wing wrangling to keep her from stalling..

at a 3 g turn at under 200 ias the  floundering is almost all gone..  Granted if you push your aircraft it will stall but none of that 200mph 2.5 g turn and stalling out like the old version..

the F model does now indeed turn better (more stable) and the g10 can actually get out of its own way without violent stall...

thats what i noticed..  I may be able to fly my 109's again now that they are not substandard anymore....


Doctoryo

Offline Pyro

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Re: Was there an FM change with v2.02??
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2005, 11:50:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Was there a small FM change we weren't notified of??


No FM changes.  I was going to remodel the N1K2 for 2.02 but didn't have the time.  That's still in the queue.  I have 190 remodeling planned after the N1K2 gets redone.

Actually, there was one minor FM change I forgot to mention.  The time it takes to deploy dive flaps in the P-38L was decreased.