Author Topic: CFI Program...took the plunge  (Read 496 times)

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« on: February 01, 2005, 06:04:07 PM »
I signed up for and paid my initial deposit for the 14 day CFI course at the Las Vegas ATP location.

I did some homework before getting to this point, and it'll take me another couple months work at my local part 61 school to knock out these ratings (CFII, MEI) so I'm going to the monkey factory.

Basically I just want to exchange cash for a little slip of paper that says 'Instructor'.

The main thing I've come to expect from the program:

Don't expect to learn anything, just pass the checkride.

I can live with that, I passed the writtens on my own through school, and I've got more than triple the time of most of their CFI students anyway in 20 different airplane types...should be ok there.  Also have 6 months work as an A&P apprentice under my belt...good show.

I will post a followup when I'm done as well as an overall how it went ditty for anyone who might be interested in the program now or in the future.

Right now total costs are shaping up to be as follows...

$4,995 for the program
$1,000 Cash for examiner - 3 rides
$215 round trip airfare Columbus - Vegas
$400 2 weeks ATP apartment

I budgeted $7000 total for contingencies, food, and what not.



I don't think they're going to make me a good instructor in 14 days, just an instructor.  I'll make myself a good one drawing on experience and learning as I go along.  I've got a ground school starting up with another guy who has 5000 dual given and has allowed me to assist in the class.  1 night a week, 3 hrs a night.

If anyone here has gone through the program, one similar or is considering it.  Post thoughts and questions and we'll see where it takes us.

Offline Chairboy

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2005, 08:24:19 PM »
I'm also considering it.  I'm still working on my PPL. but I'm really liking aviation so far.  My hope is to someday have enough hours to get my Commercial and CFI.  One thing I was pondering was maybe buying a Cherokee (the city I'm moving to only has Cessnas) and setting up as an FBO with a homeless CFI providing instruction (while I just rent out the plane) until I can get enough hours to get my own instructor ticket.

I know I wouldn't get rich doing this, but I like the idea of it.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline jigsaw

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2005, 10:05:55 PM »
Golfer, Re ATP: From what I've heard, your statement of "I don't think they're going to make me a good instructor in 14 days, just an instructor." pretty much sums them up.
Their ops in SoCal have a pretty bad rep. Haven't heard anything about the one in Vegas. I'd be interested in your opinion of them once you've gone through the program. If I can be of help during your training, don't hesitate to ask.

Chairboy, a small FBO is really hard to run at anything other than a loss or tax write off. Their best revenue generators are the ground school classes. You have a noble idea, just be very careful about researching the liabilities before setting up shop.  A good way to build time after your PPL is find another PPL and split costs. Just be careful about how you log the time.

Sidenote to Chairboy or Muck: I've got an extra Aviation Weather Services book now. If either of you could use it, let me know.

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2005, 10:14:46 PM »
Another sidenote...

ATP sent with me in my packet copies of the Instrument Flying Handbook and Airplane Flying Handbook.

I already owned these so no reason not to put them to good use.

So far Jigsaw...they sent me three Tshirts.  The ATP locations I went to while flying a DE around in Florida they all had polo shirts.  It's tempting to think about wearing my ATP Tshirt to the checkride :-D

At least it has a neat MD-11 picture on the back.

Offline jigsaw

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2005, 11:48:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer

So far Jigsaw...they sent me three Tshirts.  


They had a multi time building program a while back that was insanely cheap. Part of their SOP was that you had to wear their polo shirts while doing it.

Was looking over my bookshelf, I've got a notebook from a June Bonesteel seminar I took before I did my initial that I could loan you if you'd like.  Also have lesson plans for all the PVT, COM, and IA pts ops in word files if you need them.  Took me about a month to put them together.
There's a printed book of lesson plans here that's pretty popular.

Heck, if I were in Vegas I'd offer to fly with ya for your II and MEI. Can't do initial I yet.

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 01:12:47 AM »
Quote
Can't do initial I yet.


That's the whole obstacle.  Fortunately, this was the easiest way to do everything in my case.

I'm in a lousy spot, 700TT with 140multi.  over 100 actual instrument.  I  meet all 135 and ATP minimums with the exception of Total Time and Age in the case of the ATP.  Heck, I haven't taken the written test because it would only leave a 6 month window to do the practical test before it expired after I turn 23.

It boiled down to I didn't have the scratch on hand to pay out of pocket for the initial, didn't want an unsecured loan to do it and was going to get my CFI's anyway.  Take two weeks, work hard for a month ahead of time and do it.  So far, everyone I've delt with over the phone has been great and helpful.

I made all my lesson plans, arranged them into binders and have more IFR and Multi training materials than you can shake a stick at.  I've aquired these on my own or while doing the rating.  I just put them in plastic page savers, arranged them in a binder and voila...training materials.  I've got a book full of Private and Initial lesson plans that was given to me by another CFI.  He bought it from a company (satellite industries maybe?) and didn't use it.

Anyway, long story short there are 2 full time instructors at my flight school.  Only one has been instructing for 2 years and frankly I can't even stand to talk to her.  She's an airhead who I honestly believe is afraid to fly.  She's busted three interviews, one with Chautauqua, one with Airnet and another at ExpressJet.  Hell, I turned down Expressjet!  I'm not in aviation to race for an airline job like 90% of the CFIs out there today.  I have met too many instructors who don't give a hoot about instructing and in reality couldn't fly their way out of a wet paper bag.  They just want airlines.

I've got 6 months A&P apprenticeship done with, I'm going to knock the rest of that out in the next couple years.  I have a real solid Lear 35 and 60 job lined up thats going to allow me to also instruct, while not making garbage wages at a regional carrier.  After that, the reality is I'll either stay with the company and fly for a cargo carrier (UPS) or move back to Ohio to fly CL-604's and Hawker 800XP's for my old insurance company.  Minimum pay for minimum qualifications (say, 3000TT, 1000Jet) is $68,000/yr today.  When I was an adjuster, I took the time to make friends with the big cheese there and he's been coaching me on my career ever since I got into aviation.

If I wanted to be flying for an airline, I could be.  I turned over the traffic job driving 172 around Columbus for 4-5 hrs a day to my best friend who decided he's not going to get his ratings.  I'm bored with those, tired of 'talking' about it all the time and dove in head first.  In fact, I've been questioned by most at the flight school, including my best friend (who is now in my old job!) for doing this.  He has explained countless times that I could fly an airline for a year and then do whatever I wanted.  Yep.  It would be nice if I wanted to fly for an airline, but I don't.  No NetJets, either.  Call me crazy, but I'm in it because I love it and want to do it forever instead of for the honor of flying 30 folks in an Embraer sardine can on 30-60 minute legs.

Is that so wrong :)

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 01:14:50 AM »
Oh, by the way.  When the ATP folks asked how much time I had he took a minute to question that I had 700 hours (a page or two ago in the book.  Haven't totaled yet).  Took on the attitude of 'dude, what are you doing chasing your CFI' which really told me he just wants to go -D-> Airlines

His voice squeaked when he found out I had more multi than him :D

Offline GRUNHERZ

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2005, 01:23:45 AM »
Golfer what exatctly do you do now and want to do in the near future wrt to flying?

Sorry if I missed it in other posts.

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2005, 01:35:19 AM »
It's all up there.

I manage and play in a band now.  Up until last week I flew the traffic reports in Columbus and worked as a reserve First Officer on a King Air B100.

Before that I worked in the insurance business...which sucks!  If you're thinking of a career, that job is one where the phone only rings if it is bad news, quite depressing.

I walked into the FBO 2 weeks ago to see if I could get my old line shift back (from before I moved to FL) on the weekends, the owner jumped out from behind his desk to hire me as a CFI...with one hitch.  I negotiated a little better contract than the other CFI's there, since we have history and I gave him some money in advance when in a bind one month.  This of course is all confidential and you can't tell anyone I know :)

When I come back I'll be a full time CFI until I meet a specified minimum total time (for insurance reasons) to fly the Lear's in my soon to be new home of Kentucky.  Where I will also instruct at a nice little school I have visited on several flights, based at the same airport.

My schedule will look something like this...3:00am-8am 4 days a week I'll be a refueler at AirNet Systems at Port Columbus (Supplemental income...my 'better' contract still isnt squat) and from 9am-9pm I'll have open to instruction.  (Following a shower to wash off that friggin jet fuel which smells much better burned)

A few months of this and I'm off to Kentucky, after all I did leave Ohio in the first place.  Instruct and knock out my A&P working part time and go on about my life.

Offline jigsaw

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2005, 01:38:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer

His voice squeaked when he found out I had more multi than him :D


:lol

You and I are pretty much in the same boat with hours and such. Almost identical times even.
I'd be just as happy instructing if there were enough students around here. Since there aren't, I'm going into a FO program next month.

I got a similar comment about multi time from a flight school in Phoenix recently that wanted me. I just don't have the option of relocating right now.

Keep the blue side up.

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2005, 01:44:19 AM »
Here's a photo of what I got for $500.

Sent them money, they sent me this.



Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2005, 01:46:59 AM »
Too bad they wouldn't send me polo shirts.

Every person I ran into at their location had the ATP shirts on, wern't bad looking golf shirts either.  Eh, oh well.

"Been there, done that and got the T-shirt."



FO Program?  i.e. pay them for the honor to fly their king airs on their 121 certificate?

Good luck with that...helluvalot cheaper than paying out of pocket or waiting around for students.  I've got 4 multi students lined up already (who's good LOL!) to do the same thing my friends did for ours.  Buy a 100hr block and I'll give the dual.  Of course they will be paying my fee for I am not their friend :D  Cash is king.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 01:49:48 AM by Golfer »

Offline Gunslinger

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2005, 01:56:04 AM »
Is that an explosion or a sunrise/set on the "pilots handbook of aeronautical knowledge"?  lol

Offline jigsaw

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2005, 02:03:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
FO Program?  i.e. pay them for the honor to fly their king airs on their 121 certificate?

Good luck with that...helluvalot cheaper than paying out of pocket or waiting around for students.


Thank you sir, and exactly. Twin turbine (B99) 135 time. Comes out to about $30/hr. including 135 checkride. Beats the heck out of drilling holes in the sky in a 172 at $120/hr, and after the ground school I'll still be able to do the photo biz for income on the weekends.

Offline Golfer

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CFI Program...took the plunge
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2005, 02:08:50 AM »
How much time are you going to get in that?  I don't know much about those programs...how long are they good for?  Rehiring at the end?  Or are ya booted out the door and find your merry way to an airline?  Doesn't sound bad for the pilot with little people skills who doesn't want to do the airline thing.  Make their way to their commercial tickets and hop in a program like that.  Get spit out the other end with a pile of experience at a little more cost than training/flying/doing their CFIs