Author Topic: Nashwan (Read 750 times)

beet1e · « **on:** February 05, 2005, 05:15:26 AM »

Do you have any stats about levels of British gun ownership? I have just read some material which suggests that before 1997 it was 4.7% of all households. That seems way higher than I would have expected, but then again the volume of arms collected by the last amnesty (17,000 guns/403,000 rounds of ammo, IIRC) was way higher than I would have expected.

Hehe, let's see if this thread turns into the usual 4-5 page job.

Nashwan · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2005, 10:07:10 AM »

In 1996 there were 141,900 firearms certificates on issue in England and Wales, covering 418,300 firearms, and 638,000 shotgun certificates covering 1,335,000 shotguns.

There were approx 20 - 21 million households.

Quote

That seems way higher than I would have expected, but then again the volume of arms collected by the last amnesty (17,000 guns/403,000 rounds of ammo, IIRC) was way higher than I would have expected.

Watch out for the rather flexible definition of "firearms". West Midlands police said 55% of all "firearms" handed in to them during the amnesty were blank firers, and I'd expect a lot more to be bb guns, antiques, airguns etc.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2005, 10:14:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nashwan
Watch out for the rather flexible definition of "firearms". West Midlands police said 55% of all "firearms" handed in to them during the amnesty were blank firers, and I'd expect a lot more to be bb guns, antiques, airguns etc.

When I was a kid, I had a Daisy Red Ryder Range Model BB Gun with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time.

JB88 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2005, 10:49:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
When I was a kid, I had a Daisy Red Ryder Range Model BB Gun with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells time.

you'll shoot your eye out.

lazs2 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2005, 11:05:35 AM »

the one thing I notice about "statistics" in england is that they never have anything to do with reality... seems you guys make em suit whatever conclussion you want.. If we say you have had your guns confiscated by your nannies and that there were a lot of people who lost their rights you say that "guns" mean toys.. Lots of toys were turned in.

If we say you have a lot of gun crime now you say that they aren't guns but toys... do you guys over there even know what a real gun is?

lazs

john9001 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2005, 11:56:57 AM »

i saw a real gun once, it made loud noises an scared me...er ...maybe that was a dog.......

Nashwan · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2005, 12:21:14 PM »

There are perfectly clear definitions of what a firearm is.

However, when politicians, keen to be seen to be doing something, give the results of a "firearms" amnesty, they are keen to include anything handed in under the definition of "firearm". The press are also keen to portray anything remotely resembling a gun as a "firearm".

Strangely enough, so are gun lobby groups in America, when it comes to the British statistics.

As to crime with firearms, a firearm used in a crime is anything the criminal presents as a firearm. So if you walk in to a shop with two pieces of pipe sticking out of a bag, (which would look like a sawn off shotgun) and claim it is a shotgun, that's an "armed robbery".

mechanic · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2005, 12:34:18 PM »

Lazs...

i have trained on the SA80 (cadet model-only single cocking action not auto) and the LSW (light support weapon). I did many hours of range shooting on both and had a quick gander at a few handguns (i forget what models).

i have been on pheasant shoots and clay shoots with the old 12 gauge in both england and scotalnd

I can shoot very well despite never owning a gun more powerfull than a 'toy' air rifle.

the simple fact remains that, seeing as we dont carry guns for protection, we also dont need guns for protection.

In general, if a criminal uses a gun in the UK, i'd say its more for use as a threat than to kill or maim.

Because the general public dont carry guns, if we fight we do it the old fashioned way. people still get hurt and people still die. Its just we have the advantage of looking in the chaps's eyes rather than being sniped from 50yrds in the back.

you and beetle need to stop this gun crap, its getting kinda tedious.

Americans have guns, European (in general) dont.

lets leave it at that.

john9001 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2005, 12:57:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nashwan

As to crime with firearms, a firearm used in a crime is anything the criminal presents as a firearm. So if you walk in to a shop with two pieces of pipe sticking out of a bag, (which would look like a sawn off shotgun) and claim it is a shotgun, that's an "armed robbery".

in USA you don't have to "show" anything, if the criminal says they have a gun it is armed robbery. intimidation factor.

Rasker · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2005, 01:21:22 PM »

A hand in the pocket (if done in a meaningful manner) can make it an armed robbery in the USA.

Yeager · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2005, 01:54:17 PM »

Society in England has become so messed up as it has evolved over the ages that burglars are today considered members of the public at large who must be protected from violent householders defending their possesions against theft. That is messed up.

Just study the case of Tony Martin and you will see what Im talking about. The guy found three strangers in his home ransacking his possesions! Using a UNREGISTERED shotgun Tony defended his home shooting two of the criminals, killing one. Tony Martin was convicted of murder and sentanced to life in prison for protecting his home, his castle.

England is a pathetic place to be born. My condolances to you blokes.

Chortle · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2005, 02:51:08 PM »

Oh no, the monthly gun thread has coincided with Yeagers period.

mechanic · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2005, 02:56:46 PM »

my god the boards have been amusing overall tonight.

lazs2 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2005, 03:54:06 PM »

fair enough mechanic.. if you feel that having your firearms rights taken away has given you so much better life and less fear of bgeing killed in england that is up to you. Not sure exacly what gun laws you guys passed tho that dropped your homicide rate so dramaticaly.... My guess is that you just aren't the types of people that murder each other.

I got no problem with you guys limiting yourselves and if you believe that looking at a few handguns makes you proficient with em.... who am I to say? Doesn't seem to work that way here but... maybe people are different there.

But... When we are looking at englands gun control it is not because we want you to have your rights back (we would be happy to help if we could tho).... no... it is because the methods used by your government to disarm you are the same lieing incramentalism that they are trying to jam down our throats...

"What would be wrong with a national gun regestration, we will never use it to confiscate law abiding gun opwners firearms" they say... yet we look at you and see that they are indeed never happy until they have confiscated every gun in the country.

That is the reason we use your country as an example. You may be happy with it but we have a lot more gun owners than you ever had,,, 70-80 million of em. they are nervous and don't want to have their rights removed.... many who don't own guns now would rush out to buy em any way they could if they thought a ban was imminent.

We are just completely different people than you are. We don't have much in common at all except that you speak a very accented version of Californian (except when you sing) Even our countries are very different... we have wide open spaces and differnt state... even wyoming is allmost twice as big as your whole country.

We are simply fighting to preserve our rights as long as we can.... the example of your country and worse... Australlia (which I allways looked at as rugged individuals) your examples show us what will happen to us if we don't fight.

lazs

Curval · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2005, 04:07:13 PM »

You need that Lott guy to give you all the stats Beet. You know...the guy who writes all of his own reviews.

lol.